Man y'all ever think about how incredibly stupid it is that the internet is almost entirely financed by advertising. Like, imagine if busses were only paid for using the revenue from bus ads. And if not enough people looked at the ads for Target or a legal firm specializing in slip-and-falls, then their bus route stopped existing. How stupid would that be. That's basically what we're doing right now, but with online.

@DayGloChainsaw It used to not be that way, but big companies consolidated the news , forced subscriptions to 0, and Google made it really easy to just drop a little js on a page and make money. Feels like we gave up far more than we got.

@triptych @DayGloChainsaw i feel like paid subscriptions have always been a vanishing minority. before google ads there were a thousand dodgy popups on every website that wasn't funded by some pre-dot-com-crash vc scam.

@DJ_ADANI_MASTERCHEF @DayGloChainsaw yeah, folks want stability, reliability. What we need is a company agnostic web standard to accept payments / subscriptions to compete with the appstores of the world. It's not a silver bullet, but could be an alternative to ads. Patreon keeps many people fed and housed, for one example.

@triptych @DJ_ADANI_MASTERCHEF patreon would be better if it was a co-op directly owned by the people using the service, imo

@DayGloChainsaw @triptych definitely. it's kind of strange to me that there are so few co-ops in software. it's one of the least capital intensive industries and so potentially one of the least reliant on finance capital.

@DJ_ADANI_MASTERCHEF @triptych the reason there are so few software co-ops is because most tech bros have brain holes and if literally anyone realized they could just do that, silicon valley would burn down overnight

@DayGloChainsaw @triptych i definitely think that the narrowness of STEM education contributes a lot to the brain-holes. here in australia, at least, the university degrees are 100% technical - no exposure to anything from the arts or humanities at all. no reason to reconsider whether or not we should continue to reproduce capitalist social relations when you are trained as a mere profit-maximising cog.

@DJ_ADANI_MASTERCHEF @triptych yeah honestly, the way that tech people are educated and used is deeply reminiscent of factory workers at the turn of the 1800s. as soon as the number of people with tech education outpaces the number of jobs that are available for them, or the company's willingness to pay them, things will turn ugly fast. I know this, because I'm a history student, and this literally already happened.

@DJ_ADANI_MASTERCHEF @DayGloChainsaw maybe a human nature thing? With a tribe, you have a collective, but with everyone accountable to everyone else. I've seen lots of collectives with good intentions devolve into a hierarchy fight that eventually leads to a split. Look at how nodejs had two public rows and split the code. Maybe co-ops with rotating leadership built in?

@triptych @DayGloChainsaw this is an interesting thought. in open source, the ability to fork if you get the shits is good, but if you're offering a service as a co-op it's something to be avoided... so perhaps different/more formal democratic leadership structures would be worth thinking about.

@DJ_ADANI_MASTERCHEF @triptych here's my take: major diversity requirements. For every five people working there with a stem degree, you need three with a non-stem degree. I feel like that would solve... So many problems

@DayGloChainsaw It was exactly the same with newpapers. They were all kept afloat by the advertising revenue from, among other things, the glossy grocery store flyers (that I'm not convinced anyone ever read.) When the advertisement went elsewhere, the newspapers started to die.

Advertisement is terrifyingly important!

@geotrill I feel like that's a good idea in the long term but in the short-term it would hurt small independent sites a lot more than it would hurt say, Google

@DayGloChainsaw Also old media of newspapers, radio and TV was funded largely in the same manner

@bob ya and look how that turned out. Newspapers are dying and TV is all but forced to run the most ghoulish shit imaginable and dance to whoever can play the most expensive tune

@DayGloChainsaw @cjd
That, IMO, is part of why the September never ended. We^Wour fathers (I wasn't alive yet) let companies into the Internet, and that ruined it.

Though, I may have a skewed image of what happened there, because, as I said, it all happened before I was born.
So if any of you were there, please correct me if I'm wrong, or provide further details.

@DayGloChainsaw its both a sad and problematic issue. Various publishers are attempting paywalls to ensure they receive adequate funding but at the same time consumers have had information for “free” for so long that they have come to expect it and get rather aggressive if you try to change the status quo. Maybe decentralisation is part of the solution. I certainly hope so.

@DayGloChainsaw And not just traditional display advertising but surveillance-based adtech. So all the buses have cameras and microphones on them and they're always recording where you embark and disembark and everything you say or do while on the bus.


@aral @DayGloChainsaw That's just the automated version of some guy following you around with a camera and a mic telling you where to shop.

@DayGloChainsaw monthly, I pay about $100 for my cable modem, about $300 for phones with internet service for my family, about $20 for Netflix, $10 for Youtube music, $100 for various other stuff (VPSs and the like). There’s an incredible amount of the internet that isn’t paid for by advertising. I do agree that some sites - twitter, FB, buzzfeed and so on, are indeed all paid by advertising, though.

@DayGloChainsaw i just use ad and script blockers and don't use websites that don't let me do that. sorry, i don't agree with the philosophy, i'm not a commodity, you don't just get to profit off of me

i know it's not perfect but it feels like it helps

@DayGloChainsaw And it's a deep-rooted problem since it's not at *all* easy to do it yourself. You can set up the server side pretty painlessly with just about any computer but getting onto the network is almost impossible. The Backbone is not only remotely located but it's almost impossible to add new servers to it for a lot of various reasons.

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