Today is the first day I felt like bird site here on Mastodon. I understand it is the Indian men and not the website at fault. But gender issues is important to me. I hate men who try to mansplain to me about women issues. I felt really happy reading the rules of Mastodon which said sexism & advocacy of sexism is not allowed. I am largely peaceful in debates unless provoked, today was just a bad day with bad men around I guess, why didn’t we leave this men in bird app? *sighs*

@ninad not your fault at all. I am just hormonal today so I get affected

@Deepsealioness So what if not my fault. I should do it just to make you feel better.
As I have said earlier, a social media which doesn't take a toll on mental health especially for politically aware and active people can only be realized if we heal for every wound by either apologizing or through praise/appreciation posts.

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@ninad you are just a sweetheart 🤗 what’s your twitter handle?

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@Deepsealioness hehe. Thanks.
BirdSite handle I deleted it long time ago actually. Was fed up. Got into argument with few folks on national security and since I used to engage in mostly politics, economy and geopolitics it was difficult to stay there among constant arguing and trolling. Also it was consuming too much of my time while offering little in productivity/new learning. So thought it's better to focus on books & research papers than social media...1/2

@ninad @Deepsealioness
There is a handle by this name "esoteric guy" and all this while I was thinking that's u and I was wondering, this is not the way he talks.

Now, the mystery is solved 😂

@Deepsealioness ...but now I am here on another social media. :angery:

Even if I were active, you wouldn't have liked my profile as I followed many RW & centrist voices apart from usual LW voices. Also you wouldn't have liked my views on geopolitics. I am a realist. 🙈

@Deepsealioness oh I meant argued here not on BirdSite.
Don't remember exactly but it was something about sanghis. You labeled all of them as something and I argued that not all of them are such and BJP voter-base is a complex set of people. We just can't label all of them as blood thirsty people. They have a variety of reasons to vote the way they do.

@Deepsealioness I sometimes wish I make a dummy account there and see what's going on. Or maybe just follow the sane voices there. But then as I said it's addictive and wasted much of my time.

@ninad good decision not to have a handle there. I will stay there till they suspend my handle

@ninad @Deepsealioness
U said these same reasons to me.
Can't label them as one.
Variety of reasons etc.

Dunno, why this didn't occur to me when I replied to u.
But, whatever reasons they have, they vote for BJP, they are responsible for things going wrong today.
No reason can justify voting for them.
I have fought with NRIs giving What'sapp forward info to show their support.

@KnottedBow
Yes they are responsible for BJP being in power. That is a different thing than labelling all of them as haters or people who wants Hindu Rashtra.
Yes both you and me may agree that there can be no reason to vote them, well surely a lot of people disagree. There can be economic reasons, security (both internal and external) reasons (speaking as a former teenage supporter of BJP even before I could vote - plz don't kill me for this), TINA for some et al. 1/2

@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
Consider a village in Arunachal Pradesh which got connected to Delhi via railway for the first time or maybe got electricity for first time. A family from that village might vote for BJP.

Consider a farmer who might have killed himself if not for Narmada water reaching him. Will you explain the Narmada Bachao Andolan to him and label him a demon for displacing so many tribal villages coz of the dam?

I can give so many more examples. We shouldn't generalize.

@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
People aren't always binary in any of their choices let alone political choices. They can be selfish, unaware, gullible, so many things.

Will i label a poor family from odisha stupid coz they kept voting for congress generation after generation yet didn't see themselves being lifted out of absolute poverty? No. I don't know shit about their thoughts before voting.

Thus, instead of labeling all voters, we should continuously educate them, make them aware.

@Deepsealioness

@ninad
Ahh.. that electricity bit.
Well, electrification has been going on since we got independence.
Every subsequent govt has done it, carried forward a national policy. Feku just happened to be PM , when the last 3% remaining was done. A villager may see it that way, but he fails to see all the facts. He is plain ignorant and/or sold on the narrative.
Does not make it the fact. U and me who are educated and aware if facts must rectify ppl who think Feku did it all.

@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
That's what I am saying. If that villager votes for BJP, we should educated them not label him a hate mongering sanghi.
@Deepsealioness

@ninad
🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
Bhai... Jaake so jaa.
Shubh ratri 🙏🙏
@Deepsealioness

@ninad
U know, when there is a big fight,
like
With BJP or against BJP
There is only one way.

I have been seeing anti BJP differ in opinions and some even come to fights...
But when they vote, they are all decidedly antiBJPee.

BJPeee stands for hate. Didn't start today, since 1992, my first awareness of their hateful nature.
I am not a Muslim either, but just a human being, who saw what hate they were capable of.

so TINA is an excuse they propagated.
No reason good enf.

@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
I am not justifying any of the reasons I cited. I am just saying that they ARE a part of a set of reasons. Both you and @Deepsealioness are refusing to recognize that.
Propaganda doesn't work instantly. Both to push people into false narratives away from reality and to bring them back to reality, we have to constantly hammer them with information. In that battle, BJP is clearly ahead for now.
It's politics. We cant 'hope' people will understand our side and vote accordingly. 1/2

@ninad
Accha...tell me this.
U were a BJPuan u said.
Have u changed now ?
If so, why ??

There are a lot of BJP voters of 2014, and mentioned so in their birdsite bio, who now are decidedly against BJP. Why do u think they changed ??

And let me tell u, ppl may have reasons at micro level, that's up to them, but when we talk, it is always general. No one does each village analysis 🤦‍♀️
@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
You still asking? Isn't it clear my pref changed?
Why change? Well so many reasons. No point reiterating them here. You know all of them.

Yes many people changed their views. Again reasons are diverse.

By examples of villages I am not justifying their choice. I am just making a point that people have different reasons for voting. It is wrong for you and @Deepsealioness (going to run after this coz she will definitely kill me) to label them all as hate mongering sanghis.

@ninad
Bhai... Kisi ne bola all 100% BJP voters are hate mongers ?? 🙄🤔
But also a fact, majority bJp voters vote for a reason.
Reasons many, end result is same.
But, they sure give power to the hate mongers, so they become enablers na.

There is a snake in the ground. U will wait to find out if it poisonous or not, before u decide to run ??

@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
I never denied they are enablers.

And yes I think you both labelled ALL of them under single category. Baki itni mehnat Kyu karvayi mujse. I even had to take a knife from
@Deepsealioness
In the process.

@ninad
Let me put it simply to u.
Single catagory, yes, of BJP voters. Sahuliyat le liye, we call them sanghi, coz that is their start point.
For hate or for Tina or Kajol or Ravena, whatever reason, end result is same.
bJP gets vote.
The hate agenda of BJP gets promoted.

We have colleagues and acquaintes in real life who are BJPians. Can't avoid. Don't discuss politics with them either, that's my escape.
There is life beyond politics too.

@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
I agree. Friendships should go beyond political divide. Although I think
@Deepsealioness will disagree with this. She appears to be really ready to kill anyone who would even think of supporting them. Thank God she didn't find me 5 years ago. :blobsweats:

@ninad
Personally, I would avoid.
But, we can't choose our teachers, doctors, office colleagues, etc.
They could never be my very close friends.
@Deepsealioness

@Deepsealioness
On a serious note, I might write an essay of sorts on this. Coz I just realized that if knowledgeable people like u 2 think on these lines, it is quite possible so many others do too. If so, v r heading in wrong direction.
Although I still think u know the reality, you are just clouded by your emotions right now to recognize it. I am not denying the large presence of hate in BJP's base. But certainly not ALL of them are such. Significant amount can be won over
@KnottedBow

@ninad
Naak seedha pakdo ya Ulta, effect is same.
U r still going on about we seeing all same.
No.
There are reasons for various ppl.
There are core voters and others.
But, the end result is same, whatever be the reason.
And thats my point.

@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
I have never disagreed about the end result. I am going on and on about the voters coz unless you recognize there is a chance to win them over, you do not even begin to see the possibilities to work towards achieving that.
@Deepsealioness

@ninad
When we engage with them, our expectations is never from the core ones, but others.
@Deepsealioness

@Deepsealioness
Sigh. I don't know what to say. It's unfortunate.
All I understand is this :

Not all of BJP voters are haters. Many of them can be won over. The institutions are bent, not broken. There will always be a fighting chance and we should not give up.

You may call me ignorant or naive (not innocent - therez no reason to be polite on this) but I refuse to give up. Everyday I fight in my family and college group. Decently though. Try and convince people.
@KnottedBow

@ninad @KnottedBow As someone who is at risk due to voting for BJP as a woman and due to my husband you are actually asking us to sacrifice our dignity so that you can convince others to change and vote. I don’t need to be your ally because your interests are against me, no?

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@ninad @Deepsealioness @KnottedBow This may be taken in consideration for 2014. But 2019 has completely divided the country, who voted again for BJP are just enablers. There is no soft Nazi. A Nazi is Nazi, thats it.

@ninad @KnottedBow
U r lucky u can argue decently. I have Stopped arguing bcz after a while it is no longer decent. And the poison has spread so much even the elite, the ones expected to have a reasoned opinion, are also swayed.

But things r changing slowly and they too hv started grudgingly admit things r not well.

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@ashwin_baindur
I already have won over few from my circles. We can't lose hope. I certainly won't. Ekla cholo!!
@Deepsealioness @KnottedBow

@KnottedBow @Deepsealioness
....we have to make them realize our reality and bring them out of their reality in order for them to vote as we wish. It is easy to think "how can anyone be so insensitive to not see BJP's hatred.." ...but in practice this world is driven not by idealist theories but real-politik. Unfair? Definitely. But that's the truth.
Hear/read Yogendra Yadav on how opposition surrendered the idea of nationalism to BJP for starters.

@Deepsealioness @KnottedBow yes I am not denying that. As I said the voters for BJP obviously include haters, racists, bigots, communal monsters.
But not ALL of them are such.

@Deepsealioness
Short reason -
Much more educated people, politically aware. BJP traditionally not being strong there. Many issues such as opposition to BJP's Hindi imposition, a bit of North south divide, strong regional parties (something which is absent in Guj, Raj, MP).
Many other reason as well. I will tag you two if I ever learn enough to write a research paper.
@KnottedBow

@Deepsealioness
Yes. And that's pretty much the Gujarat model too. Mostly urban centred development at cost of tribals and villagers.
@KnottedBow

@ninad @KnottedBow so where do the innocent rural crowd come in. These are booted fucks voting bjp

@ninad @KnottedBow you said rural folks vote for bjp. I am saying what’s the excuse for this urban bigoted fucks

@Deepsealioness
I think there is some confusion here.
In Guj it's the urban section which generally votes big to BJP - mostly businessmen and upper castes Hindus. Some of them vote coz of hate, some due to well urban development, some due to crony capitalism, blah blah...
BJP is comparatively weak in rural Gujarat areas.
Come on ma'am, u too know this. take a deep breath and ask yourself objectively. Can everyone who votes bjp have no reason except being hate mongering sanghis...
@KnottedBow

@Deepsealioness
If it were that simple, we would have no hope of winning against BJP don't you think? Coz how can you convert a rabid communal sanghi into someone not voting for BJP?!!

The only reason we can still win 2024 is BECAUSE PEOPLE VOTE FOR DIFFERENT REASONS and they can be convinced to not vote for BJP by educating them about so many things.

@KnottedBow

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@ninad
Why Guujjus vote BJp more since many years.
Don't tell development. Uska ab sabko pata hai.
@Deepsealioness

@KnottedBow
Mix of - Businessmen voting for crony capitalism, many Hindu upper castes voting for hindutva +
urban development, making Narmada water available in dry AF Saurashtra region, some good rural schemes, blah blah I will have to read more. But definitely NOT a single reason and a variety of reasons. That I can say with certainty.
@Deepsealioness

@Deepsealioness
I am dead already
@KnottedBow even asked me to go to sleep. She was polite enough to not mention permanent sleep though ;)

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