I think the fact this algorithm does not take base frequencies of the hashtags into account is a big flaw. There's lots of periodic hashtags. The volume of hashtagged toots is also very low. Although don't get me wrong - there's people who think hashtags have no use whatsoever, but there's #inktober, #mermay, #mastoart, #catsofmastodon which are very much valid and used by real people and not bots and spammers.
@toffee But y'all made trending bots, and this issue is on the first page of most upvoted GitHub issues https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/271
@Gargron
- limiting your sample set to literally just developers on github and not your actual userbase is a trash idea please dont do that (most people don't check the masto github to check if they can object to possible bad features)
- trending bots were made by and for the few people who wanted to see what is trending
The idea of being able to find what's popular and finding people with similar interests is good, this specific execution is bad and needs rethinking
@toffee Anyone can make an account on GitHub, it's not much different to like, user voices or whatever that website is called. I get a lot of feedback through GitHub from non-developers.
Obviously this iteration of the feature isn't working. The only way to find that out was to deploy it on a large-userbase server, to see what real people's behaviours would be like.
@toffee Also everyone on here was salivating over the design mockup of trending tags, the people vehemently against it only came out of the woodwork once I've actually put in the work 😂
@Gargron Now that, I can empathize with.
@Gargron And yes, dude, people have only just found out that this feature was being implemented once it actually was implemented. I had no idea this was a thing until it was already deployed. Come on
@toffee Tone that down a notch will you? This is an rc not a production release. They're meant exactly for this.
@Gargron I'm wasting my time here aren't I, lmao. You're falling for simple traps and I don't think I can help, because you probably think I'm saying all this out of malice rather than out of love for this platform, and the motivation I have to help it not become exactly like Twitter.
@toffee I'm sorry if I made you feel like you are wasting your time. I'm trying to communicate that: a) GitHub is a non-zero signal as the UI itself directs people to submit feedback there b) Negative signals are difficult to acquire regardless of platform, e.g. if I get 10 people every day asking for something on Mastodon, it doesn't mean there aren't a 100 ready to object as soon as I agree c) I'm just testing this and gathering feedback, I might just take it out altogether again
a) Third time I've said this, people do not actively go to Github to see what features Mastodon is going to implement. Act as if your USERSBASE is isolated to the THING THEY ARE USING.
b) If somebody wanted a feature, they'd come to you, but if I didn't want a feature, would I come to you and say "Hey Gargron DON'T implement this" before you even thought about implementing it?
c) I do know! That's good! this is me, giving you feedback I guess. It seems that all you're exposed to are people who'd most likely agree and love anything you put out so I'm trying to be a bit of a voice for everyone I'm seeing who strongly disagrees with this.
Thanks for listening regardless
@Gargron I'm not talking about how hard it is to make an account for GitHub god damn dude, YOU ARE LIMITING YOUR SAMPLE TO THE PEOPLE ON GITHUB.
Nobody is going to check, or god forbid SIGN UP to Github to tell you that what you're doing is a bad idea.
If you're gonna implement a feature, implement polls so you can actually ask people if this is a good idea before implementing it.
@Gargron I think hashtags are extremely important in something as abstract as the fediverse, but I'm not sure I see the value in tracking hashtag trends as part of the service itself.
@Gargron so why mastoart and not art? Why did it trend that way?
@ilovecomputers I'm not the right person to ask. Why do people on instagram use #catsofinstagram?
@ilovecomputers @Gargron why are to be havings #mastodogs and #dogs ?
Is that not all of the redundants?
Also, if the Twitters is American, why they not called "poundtags"?
I is all of the confuseds.
@Gargron I use hashtags a *lot*. Maybe it annoys people, but I find them useful for a) learning about a topic and b) finding people with related interests to follow #GoHashtags!
@Gargron Deviation from a base frequency is one of the methods suggested in this paper: (Sensing trending topics in Twitter) http://www.lajello.com/papers/tmm13.pdf
@Gargron the way i see it, trends are just one more way of finding people to follow/interact with.
personally, the local/federated timelines don’t do much for me because they’re crazy unfiltered, fast, and dependent on when i peek into it. boosts are better, but *very* localised around the booster’s circle of interactions.
trends could make one more method, with their own (dis)advantages and peculiarities. if people are too put off by them, make display optional?
@Gargron I search for hashtagged words if I want to find them in toots. I don't need to know if 0 people used them in the last half-hour. I have been a happy, contributing Masto user for a year and know I can scroll down the right panel for the hashtag resultset of toots. Example: using #introduction and #introductions to return new fediverse accounts.
@gargron
I loathe hashtags. Also I loathe the very concept of trend.
@Gargron Hashtag use on Mastodon will improve if it’s implemented. Build it and they will use it. 👍🏻❤️
@chidgey @Gargron My suggestion would be a word cloud that can do (local/federated) over (hour, day, week, month, everything) with each instance admin being able to specify a list of tags they consider spam or high-volume background noise (such as #np or #ff) so only the clouds only contain tags relevant to their instance.
@Gargron which people have had no difficulty finding out about thus far, right?
and for the rest of the year in the months that dont have drawing memes, it'll be filled with bots and spammers. chief I'm going to be real this feature kinda blows