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I'm not sure if some people think I own or control mastodon.cloud 🤔 For reference, no, only mastodon.social is mine!

@Gargron I'm pretty sure that that misinformation was a result of your instance's moderation actions in relation to mastodon.cloud.

@Gargron OH okay well thanks for moderating! 😂 I know nothing bout how anything works lol

@Gargron I didn't know the mere existence of mastodon.cloud, so you didn't even let me the opportunity to be misled.

@Gargron This gives me the opportunity to thank you for the awesome work you do for Mastodon.

So, yeah. Thanks a lot!

@Gargron We are aware. How you choose to moderate a bad faith actor on another instance has implications for the smaller instances.

I will not re-litigate that he's acting in bad faith or how it's impacting smaller instances. You are adults. You know you're being silly.

@some_qualia Please explain that dynamic in more detail. You have full autonomy so I'm not sure how us silencing or not silencing someone on another instance affects your decision making on whether to do the same.

@Gargron I have gotten, and I know other admins have gotten, several frivolous reports where the man is not even @ 'd. Where he (or a fan) doesn't like a pun he's tagged in. I have him suspended from the instance so nobody can @ him.

@Gargron Now I have to worry about whether people on my instance are gonna get suspended (essentially deplatformed) because they say things like "I don't like Wil Wheaton" (him not tagged) and he or a fan are frivolously reporting that for "harassment."

@Gargron His promotion of an anti-trans block list is clearly transphobic in impact, and based on his blocking of people who informed him of it, intent. He is still a bigot and still powerful regardless of whether he uses good etiquette. And his efforts to report untagged discussion of him as "harassment" to silence people who don't like him is not appreciated.

@Gargron I sincerely hope larger instances will stop doing things like calling the man a victim or homophobia or treating him like "any other user," because he is not. He is a powerful transphobe who will not leave my instance alone despite me suspending him, and I am irritated he is being indulged.

@some_qualia You don't have to act on reports you receive... And you don't know if other servers will or won't do the same, reports don't automatically result in anything on Mastodon, people look at them and decide.

@some_qualia Also here's what's really confusing... You want me to suspend wil wheaton on mastodon.social, so mastodon.social users don't see him, while he remains on mastodon.cloud, so that YOUR users stop sending him hateful messages that get reported and might get them suspended on mastodon.social? I don't quite follow the logic because it seems like your users can just keep doing that and your risk will still remain whatever I do?

@Gargron I have not said you should suspend him at all.

My users literally cannot send him hateful messages. Literally. He is suspended. He cannot see anything hateful, and what has been reported has not been hateful. Please do not lie about my users.

@some_qualia If you are not arguing in favour of suspending wil wheaton on mastodon.social, then what are you talking about?

@Gargron I am arguing the bad judgement of the administration of larger platforms has encouraged a bigot to use the reporting system to harass my users, and I don't appreciate it.

@Gargron I know of other instances (not just bofa, at least 2 more) also dealing with this. And it sucks.

@some_qualia But if those users aren't breaking any rules, and the reports are nonsense, then the mods on those other platforms won't do anything

@Gargron @some_qualia by modeling poor mod behavior on .social, though, you are encouraging users on other instances to expect their mods to behave accordingly.

This didn't need to be so fraught or complex - if you decided that the initial comment was offensive, surely you can see that a clearer communication around the offense, what to expect, and what to do if there was an issue would be the right thing?

It's ok to not be able to do it yet. It's not ok to not recognize that change is needed.

@Gargron Here's hoping I see better judgement in this matter from the leadership of both instances than they have displayed thusfar, then.

@Gargron For instance: characterizing my users as abusive sans any reason to think so (which is untrue and offensive)? That was not okay. You are the loudest voice on this platform. Please be mindful of the impact of saying untrue things flippantly.

@some_qualia: Wait.. didn't you just call Wheaton a bigot earlier in this thread?

@bpepple He is one. The sky is blue. I have ample justification for believing so, and am saying so out of a genuine belief it is true.

There is a book I suggest you read: Conflict Is Not Abuse.

Now if you will please excuse me, this is not up for discussion.

@some_qualia FWIW, I think the problem may not be with the specific admins of big instances or the specific calls they have made w/r/t a specific issue. I think there's an underlying problem where if any instance is so much bigger then the median (m.s and the pixiv one, etc.), any bad judgement call on the part of any admin on those instances could be really bad.

I don't know that there's a solution that doesn't tend towards replacing federation with full decentralization, which is kind, well, big.

@benhamill @some_qualia This is a good point. (Ugh I said I would no longer talk about this). I can easily drop all of this but I would hate for everything about Mastodon being dictated with people with a large following.

@Gargron @some_qualia Pretty sure a lot of people just want the .social mod team not to ban people who tell him to shut up or criticise him, nor act like he's an innocent victim

@Gargron @some_qualia ....this may not have been the right alt to reply from, but nevertheless,

@ratioclub @Gargron I have no interest with interacting with him, at all, ever, and have taken steps to protect my users from him.

And yet he or confederates are still abusing the reporting system to harass my users for posts that merely say his name.

@some_qualia @Gargron can you explain again more clearly what the exact problem is?

(I do not understand but am still pretty new here.)

Unless *you* suspend your users @some_qualia then they remain part of the Fediverse on your instance, don't they?

So just ignore those reports?

@Gargron

I think the idea that Mastodon isn't 'one thing' is really hard for people who grew up with Facebook/Twitter/etc being the normal means of communication.

@Gargron I have repeatedly made that mistake, and it hasn't felt at all right that you'd be associated with the stuff that I'm going "but that isn't how Eugen deals with things." I *do* know that you don't but I keep making the mistake and having to correct myself.

@Gargron there is more subdomains for mastodon, like @mastodon.potato ?

@Gargron Is there some drama going on right know? I don't get it..

btw never thought you have control over mastodon.cloud and I don't see any reason why people would think that besides you being featured on "the admins choices"

@Gargron You also exert a moral leadership, or, failing to do so, create a vacuum which others will compete to occupy.

Not all with the best of intentions, or competence.

@Gargron oh neat I found the drama thread, I was wondering when this was gonna happen.

I guess a lot of users here A. Don't understand federation, B. Have an affinity for finding trouble everywhere they go and C. Don't understand what DMs are for.

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