Follow

To be more transparent about server blocks, I have decided to follow the example of others and publish a list: github.com/Gargron/mastodon.so

That list is now linked from our about page. It also explains how different block severities work.

You might notice that bofa.lol is on the list. It's at the very least a temporary measure because our mods had to deal with a lot of problematic content coming from that place yesterday.

@MatejLach @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez I know nothing about the actual comments but I’m pretty sure collective punishment is a less than stellar way to go about that. You’re of course welcome to feel otherwise. One thing I’ll say is that if people were expressing things in a nasty tone to a racist or homophobe there’d be no issue and indeed people would probably be cheering it because bigotry is indefensible. Clearly the exception is it involves bias against trans people.

@streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez If it's tens/hundreds of accounts, there's no other way to deal with it without losing your sanity.

Also, the post states that they were nasty to dot social mods. That's not fair, these are volunteers donating their time and energy.

@MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez I think the heart of the issue is that a bofa mod had taken the position on behalf of that instance that harassment was condoned. There is no other remedy but to act as if harassment will continue to be condoned by that instance.

@Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez not all harassment is equal. Heck, not all “harassment” is harassment. It’s not harassment if you’re getting yelled at because you’re a racist or transphobe or because you are supporting them.

@FatherMcGruder @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez Hypothetically you may be right. But in this case members of bofa were harassing mods of .social for upholding the rules of the instance which some might conflate into defending transphobes but isn't the whole story.

@FatherMcGruder @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez And some behaviors, even directed at those who appear to deserve it, are still harassment. There's a difference between engaging in a constructive interaction and just being an ass, even if you're an ass with purpose

@Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez it's difficult for me to piece together what is going on and a generic term like harassment isn’t helping. Bad people claim harassment all the time. Does @Gargron have a good definition for what his instance considers harassment somewhere?

@FatherMcGruder @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez @Gargron He may. But in this case the mod themself appeared to identify the behavior as harassment and then said it was okay for reasons

@Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez @Gargron Is this what you are referring to?: bofa.lol/users/selfagency/stat

It's a better explanation than what we've gotten from .social and it sounds like the BofA admin did the right thing.

@FatherMcGruder @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez @Gargron That is it and I disagree. It was not a good call. If that's the behavior they want on their instance they can have it, but I think it would be advisable for other instances to protect themselves from that kind of sanctioned harassment.

@Gargron @Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez like I said, it's hard for me to piece together what really happened, but the BofA admin has articulated a relatively clear and just definition of harassment. Sometimes what people call harassment is good and righteous. Tolerance and civility are cowards’ virtues.

@FatherMcGruder @Gargron @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez Tolerance and civility are two values many of those you think this behavior is helping would most want to secure for themselves. Discarding them as a means to attaining them seems self defeating.

@FatherMcGruder @Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez Be very careful about who you're comparing to who. If you're claiming that harassing a trans woman on my mod team who disagrees with you is as justified as punching a literal nazi, you may wanna pack up your things from this instance and get the fuck out.

@Gargron @Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez hey, for all I know the BofA admin is not acting in good faith. I'm just trying to make a point against pearl-clutching, that it's only good for bad actors.

@FatherMcGruder

Dude just give it a rest. Eugen doesn't have a power trip complex he's just overloaded. The CM made a mod decision and explained why.

Then a Butthurt Campaign was launched which tore through everyone's federated timelines on all the instances.

And I'm only commenting because guess what this thread got shared and made it in my fedi on my small instance far away.

@Gargron @Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez

@trayofbees buddy I've been letting it rest for like three hours.

Look, mastodon.social—heck just about every instance—needs a better harassment policy, something in the direction of what the admin tweeted earlier (see link in a previous post). “Play nice” and “be civil” are the inches that white supremacists and other bad elements turn into miles. Eugen needs to get on it.

@FatherMcGruder

Yeah m.soc is this super nazi creepzone r/n 🤣

Look, the Worst TERF on Masto™ was meme'd out of existence and suddenly everyone's not happy--idk why 🤷‍♂️

(psst it might have something to do with the Fediverse being over polluted with tons of steaming hot garbage, but that's just the view from the folks who get pushed Fedishit we have limited control over)

@Gargron
Have you considered perhaps not listening to known rapist, abuser, and literal FBI snitch laurelai Bailey when she says that people are harassing her for believing her victims Eugen
@FatherMcGruder @Fellixe @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez

@Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez
Especially considering she was taking heat for *cups hands* DEFENDING A TRANSPHOBIC SHITHEAD

@DickButt4Prez @Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner Because when it's tens/hundreds of users doing it, it's hard to keep individually blocking, unless that's what you want to do all day and nothing else.

It's the same reason whole servers sending spam are blacklisted. There may be some non-spam services on there, but the spam rate is such that you just have to block the server.

@Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez That's because she tried to take a bullet for the dumbass who decided to mute someone for "a few days" because they made a harmless joke directed at a celebrity and then didn't communicate, and it's pretty shitty of you to throw her out there again instead of taking blame yourself, since much of the hate was also directed at you, she just kept trying to do damage control.

@Estrusflask @Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez It's not up to you to decide what is a "harmless joke". The person targeted complained of harassment and the instance has clear policies against that.

Instead of blaming Eugen, why don't you just admit that what you really want is different rules for the people you like. That is they can harass, since you like them, these are "harmless jokes". Now if somebody sent a "harmless joke" their way - harassment!

@MatejLach @Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez I've actually been pretty clear about wanting that.
The person in question was a shithead. I have no problem with C-list internet celebrities being chased off platforms, especially when they've previously hurt people with poor management of their personal status.

This happened because of Wheaton's history of behavior.

@MatejLach @Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez but also, yeah, it was a harmless joke, and the rules of the site only consider something harassment if it's sustained. One shitty joke that hurt his feelings isn't harassment.
Normal people have and would just block and be done with it. He reported, then kept reporting because he wants a safe space not for people like the trans women who hate him, but for people like him.

@Estrusflask @Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez He did not broke any rules, so what you guys did wasn't right. Simple as that. If he's done something not nice in the past, that doesn't mean you have the right to chase him everywhere for the rest of his life. Especially if he apologized, which it does seem so.

I just hope your personal life is as pristine and flawless as you expect of others.

@MatejLach @Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez no one cares if he broke the rules. And it's not his personal life that's the issue, it's his public one.

He did something that harmed several hundred people and cut them off of their support networks and has downplayed and misrepresented the damage he did without trying to undo it.

He is a source of emotional discomfort to many. He makes no effort to change his harmful behavior.

@MatejLach @Gargron @Fellixe @FatherMcGruder @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez
Asking the trans women of the instance to ignore that showed a disregard for the safety of people on his instance. Doubly so when he's listening to an ostracized rapist and abuser about bofa.lol's supposed transitioning instead of several trans women who aren't rapists.

@MatejLach @streetvalkyrie @MarkWarner @DickButt4Prez .social mods are paid, aren't they? @Gargron? Not to say that they deserve people being nasty to them, I hasten to add.

@streetvalkyrie It's described on the page! Hopefully in enough detail.

@Gargron it might be kind of neat if the Instance objects in the API could include things like the block list and a sanitized HTML version of the code of conduct, etc. so clients could build in inspectors for that stuff. (I'm thinking having a little "Code of Conduct" button on a client's posting UI, for example, might not be a bad idea.)

@Gargron can we get instance block tools like we have on reports? Notes, and maybe a timer for less permanent blocks, like a timeout if local drama floods other timelines?

@Gargron Thanks! Are your folks currently in communication with anyone on the bofa mod team?

@Gargron is there at least a threshold of % of users contributing to harrassment that should be met before a big ol muting? or like, how recurring the harrassment is?

this instance-wide-muting measure is seemingly extremely heavy-handed when this appears to be the first offense - and both sides claiming harrassment via various means

@Gargron @computerghoul It would be sensible to provide evidence of the harrassment, but I think I trust your judgement.

@ster @computerghoul I can say that our mods thought it was necessary, but we might find a compromise.

@Gargron @ster @computerghoul Their admin is literally slandering women who criticize them as we speak

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon

Follow friends and discover new ones. Publish anything you want: links, pictures, text, video. This server is run by the main developers of the Mastodon project. Everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!