@Gargron Generous is when Substack said I could use their PO box for the required email footer rather than blow $60 on one I'll never use.

They also charge 10%, but it's a good price for what I get. Patreon barely does what they do right, and they hold your subscribers hostage by not letting you connect directly to Stripe.

@Gargron Garbage fire. I’m hoping for a non-profit doing something like Patreon does. :/

@thomasfuchs @Gargron there is always Liberapay. They fixed the payment processing, but they do pay out at strange intervals.

@bobstechsite @thomasfuchs Liberapay can't make the jump to being a money transmitter, which prevents it from being a true Patreon replacement, especially for non-tech creators

@Gargron To be clear, Patreon isn't a licensed money transmitter anymore than we are. They probably use the same exception in US law that Gratipay used to argue that they're not required to get a license.

P.S. One of the reasons why Liberapay isn't a "true Patreon replacement" is simply that it's not our mission to be one.

@bobstechsite @thomasfuchs

@Liberapay @Gargron @bobstechsite @thomasfuchs The actual wording in their Terms of Use is this: "In connection with your charges to patrons, you appoint us as your limited agent for the sole purpose of receiving, holding, and settling payments to you. As your agent, our receipt of funds from a patron on your behalf is the same as receipt of funds by you directly [..]"

@kornel We're aware that Patreon collects VAT from EU patrons. It's required to by EU law. That doesn't change the fact that if Patreon was based in the EU it would have to get licensed as a payment service provider in order to be able to operate the way it currently does in the US.

@bobstechsite We don't really "pay out" anymore, since we no longer hold any funds. You receive money when your donors send it, and if you use Stripe it sends the funds to your bank account according to the payout schedule configured in dashboard.stripe.com/account/p @thomasfuchs @Gargron

@Liberapay @thomasfuchs @Gargron thank you for that info. I've just connected Stripe to my LP account (previously was just PayPal) 🙂

@thomasfuchs @Gargron

Doesn't necessarily need to be non-profit. A multi-stakeholder cooperative would work well (the stakeholders being creators, customers and employees).

@Gargron "generous" hahahahahahahahaha, they take a huge cut of all money paid to creators for the act of... what? the website is dogshit and hosting costs per creator would be next to nothing. they only get any money because there's no popular open-source alternative that *doesn't* take a cut.

@Gargron if you ask me, which you didn't, Patreon's issues have always lied in Conte and his partner, the one that does all the work. Conte tells his story about wanting creators to get paid and then his partner who does the coding changes the payment system and people to nuts. Conte had to apologize and they changed it again. You have dreamy Conte with his mission and a real capitalist business behind him.

@Gargron Did you see the Twitter thread that @mutantstd linked to, though?

post: weirder.earth/@mutantstd/10154

thead linked: twitter.com/FoldableHuman/stat

The summary of it is: They make money fine. Their business model is fine.
Their FINANCING model is not sustainable, because they've taken out $100,000,000 in venture capital money and so to even that bargain they NEED to hit billions and billions of dollars in "valuation" to meet the venture capitalists' demands.

@gaditb @mutantstd Yes, I've seen it! But I prefer not to link to Twitter.

@gaditb @Gargron @mutantstd It seems that the VCs are always the ones that doom a company in the end.

@Gargron Dear customers, things are about to get worse. Also you should be thanking us right now.

@Gargron What is the best existing alternative that I can direct people to use (e.g. someone currently using Patreon who agrees this sounds like some Bad Stuff coming down the pipe)...?

@meejah
I know Mastodon (as well as some other groups) uses opencollective but I don't think that may help you much... I think another I've heard of is Podia. I think that's the one I'm thinking of at least! I hope this helps, my apologies if it doesn't.
@Gargron

@LimaBeanHoagie @meejah @Gargron

Kickstarter has d.rip they're a public benefits Corp, so no VC shenanigans....

@lindner @LimaBeanHoagie @Gargron
Drip sounds interesting, but also doesn't sound like something I can tell people to "just go and use instead of Patreon" yet...

@meejah @lindner @LimaBeanHoagie Drip is also in limbo right now. Nobody can sign up and it's being transferred to another entity, who knows if it stays around...

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