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What would be a fair rate limit for toot deletions?

Current limit of 300 per 5 minutes is too high, because of the performance cost of a deletion. Some third party tools for mass deletions do not pace themselves adequately and cause issues, so I believe this must be enforced at API level.

Going to go with 30 per 30 minutes for now. However, that means it would take 34 days if I suddenly decided to delete all of my current toots individually. But, it's possible that anything faster than that would be harmful for the fediverse 🤔

@gaditb The posting rate limit is 300 per 5 minutes, and I would actually like to pose the same question about it at some point. That's way too high.

@Gargron @gaditb 300/5 = 60?

i don't think it's even possible for a human to post once per second continuously for five minutes

100 or even less would probably be a lot more feasible

@Gargron @gaditb I’d say once every five seconds, aka 60 per 5 minutes is reasonable for both posting and deletion? You could maybe get away with 1 per 10s=30 per 5m, but much slower than that and I think you do run into a strong likelihood of inconveniencing people

@Gargron Something not much over what a human could do manually (like 20/min?)... plus a delete-range API that queues up a whole batch and does it as a low-priority thing?

@Gargron I'm pretty clueless but that does sound like a good idea.

@Gargron Is that one per second, or a limit of 300 at any time within 5 minutes?

@Gargron In that case I would say "fair" is based on how bad the performance is. It's only auto-delete scripts that would be impacted so it's not a usual case.

@Gargron on the other hand, are there native interfaces for bulk/scheduled deleting posts? Something which can lump together operations or spread them out over time?

@yu The workload cannot be bulked very well at all.

@ida Click show thread probably. I'm not going anywhere. Bean

@Gargron oooh i just misread that first message i thought you were pondering what pace would be good for said third party tool, as if you were setting it up

@Gargron how does like, deleting your account work? if someone just wanted to be gone immediately is that an option?

that would be my major concern here is like, if someone really needed to scrub their presence fast, this could be harmful to them

@anna Deleting the account is much faster. It's a single event, federation-wise.

@Gargron so at least that's available as an "oh shit" button still, alright

@anna Deleting your account isn't even an API action so it's not part of anything discussed above

@Gargron right, but im just thinking of whether or not this change would limit options for someone in a way that could put them in danger

@Gargron Well, here's an idea, introduce API (or just a flat-out feature) that can let you wipe all of the account's toots while keeping everything else intact. Surely that wouldn't be too hard, right?

@birbhorse Not simple. You need to add a handler for said activity before allowing anyone to send such an activity, then wait until most servers in the fediverse have upgraded, and even then it's a bit of a yikes situation, because if some server does not understand the "wipe" command it's going to be really unexpected by the author.

@Gargron -. Just curious: Are you deleting those toots in a bunch within a transaction or are those isolated deletes without an explicit begin/commit clause?

@Gargron In other words, it will be more efficient to delete toots manually...? Or will that affect manual deletion, too? It doesn't sound good, especially for people who want to do purges without actually leaving Mastodon.

@gargron bursting would be great pls. when i was working on a discord bot we'd use it for cleanup. If we could have had bursting then a throttle it would make admin cleanup much faster.

@Gargron When is a deletion considered 'complete'? When gone from original instance, or from all places in the Fediverse? Perhaps 2 limits? API at original instance, and then propagation delay (akin to speed of light) across the Fediverse?

@Gargron Why is the performance cost of deletion high(er than a toot)? Does it require the message reach all servers in the fediverse, whereas a toot is limited distribution?

@Gargron i just want to nuke all my toots is that too much to ask

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