Why do people think that just because the software you make available is FOSS you have to be friendly to everyone who uses it?

Customer support and positive feelings from the maintainer are not part of the license deal

Because the context collapse is already happening, the above post is about the indignation free software absolutists express at my suggestion to not recommend Mastodon to the alt-right.

Oh I didn't get it! I just thought I should remain the same person.

@Gargron I think it's the same expectancy some of us have with professional artists: We all tend to assume that when someone creates something beautiful or which has helped them, they must be a perfect person. Speaking strictly as a general rule, that is anything but the case... as I've slowly grown to learn over years of watching many big artists in my community.

@Gargron I'm really not happy with the obsession among open source people with licenses having to allow every use, and excluding licenses that take any kind of ethical stand against evil.

@Gargron yeah, we have a real problem with open source folks being too nice.

@WAHa_06x36 he provided no context and he's been less than stellar in the past wrt users with safety concerns over mastodon features.

That is to say: I'm pleasantly surprised now he's given some context to his first toot.

@moggers87 @Gargron no, our problem is too many users of open source software feeling entitled for… anything they assume, really.

@Gargron People apply the customer service model to a thing, even if they're getting it for free. The customer is always right! 😜

@Gargron IKR? My favorite example is Linus Torvalds in that one. Everyone is shitting on him for being an asshole on the LKML and forcing him to change his behavior but Linus owes nothing to nobody except himself.

Same should be said for every maintainer of open source software regardless of how big or important the code is. It's really sad that "good behavior" is now a forced expectation.

@eleix @Gargron I argue that's the difference between releasing something as open source and having an open source community. Good behavior is expected if you are leading a community.

#LB "C'est pas parce que je fais du logiciel libre que je dois arrêter d'être un connard" #TraduisonsLes

@HgO Il parlait justement de gens qui lui disaient qu'il devrait pas décourager les nazis d'utiliser mastodon

@Elza Hm ok, mais bon ça pouvait s'appliquer à son comportement envers les gens qui proposent des fonctionnalités pour Mastodon 😕

@HgO ouais aussi en vrai (mais juste dans le contexte ça marchais pas ^^ (pour une fois j'ai envie de dire))


Oui, ou alors tout simplement:
"Tu as fait une promesse? tiens-la.
Tu n'as pas fait de promesse? tiens bon."

@apLundell @Gargron I had a good laugh. Thx. And here I even won't get blocked for saying herbySk is an idiot. :antifa:

@Gargron I wonder if this attitude is partially a mixture of "any addition to a community is good" and the "person's behaviour should never matter" attitudes.
I see the former a lot among people who don't get that toxic a-holes are just toxic to the community and the latter is common in FOSS circles, at least AFAICT.

Of course at least some of them are likely from bad actors. Fascists aren't exactly known to be above pretending to be "about freedom" or whatever.

@Gargron It also doesn't really help make me think they're acting in good faith when "emotional and mental strain is not a thing" is the go-to trick for fascists to try and wear people down and that is exactly the driving logic behind the "no matter how big an ass, they should always be allowed in if their work is fine" attitude.

@Gargron Well, I guess some could be hardcore "win them by debating them" or whatever, but fuck those people as well.

@Gargron they're free to use it, but you're under no obligation to help them or be friendly to them


Free Software absolutists are alt right themselves

They usual recur to civil rights rethoric to support their hate

Think the free speech bullshit

@Gargron conflating (part of fediverse) software with its (fediverse) usage culture seems to be a stumbling block.

yes, you are free to use the software. but every respectable instance will kick MAGAts on sight, or eventually get defederated by everyone. imho, how we talk about this place (via talking about the software) needs to include that this is a hostile place for nazis, period.

@Gargron the alt right (and other repugnant users/uses) are legally allowed to use it.

doesn't mean you (or anyone else) has to like it.

Nor does it mean that disapproval needs to be silent... Unless, of course, "silent" means ignoring an alt-right instance admin in the developer IRC channel of a project, because I'm up all night for that :angelcat:


Part of the "automatic civility" nonsense. "We must be polite to all, even those who wish us dead! Otherwise WE'RE the villain!"

@gargron I think it's more the other way round - we live in a capitalist society where most of the things we use are commercial products made by companies and the expectation is that they must always be cordial and helpful to their "customers"

Agree mostly with your comment, however...

People are not so 1-dimensional. Someone could be many things that you find admirable as well as some you don't. If they support the project and their contributions are helpful then great.

I think it is unwise for Mastodon as a project to take positions against any lawful use. It's unnecessary and counterproductive. I find lots of instances and users distasteful, so I didn't join those instances and don't follow those people. My choice.

It's not a matter of being friendly, it more that quite a few people assume that even if it's FOSS.... they can treat the mantainer/programmer like the service desk of a store and they are the customer, and "The customer is always right".

Which isn't how it works, a mantainer/programmer (unless it IS their job) doesn't have to care about the customer because once they use FOSS. They are not a customer, they are a user.

And a user has to have some sense of desency, because they can be ignored.

I still support that position, and I still support taking a strong stance in regards to your project~

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