Follow

Just FYI I have not done any more work for Purism since Todd told me the decision to not moderate Librem Social was final. I've already seen some alt right personalities on there and that's not fine with me.

@gargron will mastodon.social block the librem instance then?

@gordon The mastodon.social approach to domain blocks is to avoid them unless:

a) the server is *specialized* for something that breaks our code of conduct

b) or if the volume of individual mod actions required to handle violations from that server overwhelms the mod team

Until that happens, we try to moderate against individual violators

@gordon @Gargron Please do that, it's a disaster for the entire fediverse to not be able to moderate properly...

@Gargron Yyyyyikes, I was considering their phone there, but if this is their approach to moderating anything, that certainly is a bullet dodged.

@MezzoM5 @Gargron hardware and even software can be good without services offered by the same people being good, and vice versa

see also: pretty much every company tbh. remember the facebook phone? and google+?

@wilbr This is true. However, some of these companies are far easier to avoid than others. Facebook and Google and incredibly difficult to get away from considering they have spent a great deal of their time spidering themselves across the board. This fact is pretty much true.

That does not mean that people shouldn't take a little bit more time to be mindful of the tech that they use. I don't blame them if it becomes overwhelming. This is my personal choice to make here is all.

@MezzoM5 for sure. I guess what I'm getting at is that you can buy a Librem phone and have it be a good, moral, pro-privacy, pro-every-good-thing decision, while acknowledging that their decision to not moderate their Mastodon instance is a bad idea.

I think Librem was honest about them being a hardware/software company but not much of a services company, and it's just in the Mastodon area where that's a big problem (email admins don't exactly moderate their users' behavior, for example.)

@wilbr Well I suppose, though that's where a lot of my trepidation stands is in that fact. I know it's a little hard to do well in everything, that much I understand for sure.

However to just leave one aspect of service to the wayside in order to support the others, in this case moderation, strikes me as the kind of decision that is most definitely going to play out in their other aspects. Hence my initial trepidation with choosing them over the usual suspects.

@MezzoM5 for sure, good point. I think I rest slightly on the other side of this judgment call but depending on how much I trust them or what I want from them I might make the same exact decision as you.

I guess at the end of the day I just neeeeeeed hardware OEMs that package opensource OSes. All of this freedom-supporting stuff we're talking about is bullshit if Intel, Microsoft, and Apple control everything.

@wilbr For sure. Again it's just a sticky ordeal entirely to combat companies that have spent a lot of time and resources to being the top service. It's more than any one person can deal with, so we do the best we can.

@Gargron If he's refusing to moderate alt right stuff then I'll also have to block his instance.

@Gargron #logiciellibre So do you recommend an alternative to the Librem 5? I still use a dumbphone (small, non-touch-screen). I see no point switching from a small basic phone that spies on me a bit to a big phone that spies on me a lot more. But I've been seriously thinking of getting a Librem 5. Until now. What are arguments for/against the alternatives? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_

@boud I can't give advice about hardware. It is not my speciality

@boud @Gargron hardware-wise there won't be alternatives to the librem 5 at first. Theres the necuno mobile and pinephone, where pinephone as far as i know is underpowered, the necuno phone is way outside of most peoples budget.
The librem 5 seems to be the best bet for most people wanting something thats truly open, and still expect to have a reasonable experience running linux.
Plus the amount of work done on that thing is astonishing, not only purisms.

@vancha @Gargron Thanks for the overview (30 May)! All three are listed near the bottom of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ , although the WP:RS'd info is rather sparse, and there are several red links.

@boud @gargron
I would like to think that a regular old Smartphone with a free and open custom ROM like LineageOS (or Sailfish etc...) but without Google Play Services (and not linked to a Google Account) should be okay-ish, assuming you pay the same type of attention as with your PC.

... But I'm not really sure about this. I find it hard to find definitive information on this. I'm currently on regular Android, without Google account, and a bit afraid to make the jump to LineageOS

@boud @Gargron just a heads up, Pine64 is planning on releasing a Linux phone at the end of this year, the PinePhone. specs will be fairly low-end compared to the Librem5, but it'll only cost around 150-200€, so that might be a good alternative for you.
pine64.org/pinephone/

@NoGodsNoSenpais @Gargron Pine64 looks interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine64 Do we know enough about the people and methods at Pine64 - a company registered where? - to trust what has been done at the hardware level to avoid hardware backdoors like the equivalent of the Intel ME? The pine64 webpages give an impression of a community-run project, but the key people in Pine64 Inc. don't seem to be listed apart from Johnson Jeng in interviews cited in the Wikipedia entry.

@Gargron what do you mean , you want to control and censor ? I'm on mastodon because i thought freedom of speech was respected here

@starfiend You have read and agreed to our server's code of conduct when you were signing up.

@Gargron @starfiend And if you (actually) read the CoC and disagree, there's plenty of servers you can move to that might suit you better.

@starfiend
Are you "alt right"? Or just against platforms trying to control opinions?

@yisraeldov no, not alt right lol just hardcore freedom lover.

@starfiend But didn't you know that means you are "alt right"!?

But seriously, I hear that the services from purism are not moderated. They are in germany so, IDK what that means exactly. librem.one

you can also just run your own server, pleroma.social/ ( I think I plan to do that soon )

@Gargron do you mean active moderation specifically? (Where they appoint moderators to watch the public timeline).

It looks to me that they have a passive form of moderation. librem.one/stay-safe/

librem.one/conduct/

@springbov @Gargron they have explicitly stated they will not moderate hate speech, thus giving a platform to hate groups. Other forms of harmful content that ddoesn’t fall under “harassment” will be allowed as well.

@brainblasted @Gargron I appreciate your response. I'm having a hard time tracking down their statement about allowing hate speech. Is there a link that I can click on (to read myself)?

BTW, I agree that hate speech should not be tolerated and should be moderated.

@brainblasted @Gargron I think I see what the problem is now. Thanks for taking the time to fill me in!

@brainblasted @Gargron @springbov I'm struggling to see the whole picture and all viewpoints here...

@springbov
Yes. This point in their CoC...
"Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences"

#Censorship is removal of #FreeSpeech, no?
I also notice the other section on #harassment which surely is a two way street!?
@Gargron

@Gargron just because they actually promote real free speech doesn't mean they're bad. you should stick to banning individuals that violate your terms and temporarily ban the instance if they suffer a spam attack.

I don't understand, we all care about privacy and freedom, criticizing Google and Facebook's control over our lives, but for some it's totally okay to hand over the control of what you see to an unknown third-party.

@Gargron I thought it was about preserving our rights, freedom and privacy. but your toot says otherwise, it just looks like you want to play the same role Google and Facebook have been playing for years.

it's like arguing with someone in real life and just glueing their mouth because they said something you disagree with, preventing them from talking and removing their freedom of speech.

@xinayder
It is not that they say "something wich we desagree with", it is about hate speech, harassment and bigotry. There is a big difference. And there are other instances for who wants to behave that way.

social.libre.fi/objects/99dcbe

@Gargron

@Gargron Maybe you should work toward better tools to allow users to self-censor rather than rely on censorship overlords. On Usenet and email, we can filter on all headers, subject, and body content. Pictures are harder, but there's probably algorithms that could detect symbols and cartoon characters.

@gargron Yeah... social media needs moderation the way cities need sewers.

If you don't have them a bunch of people start getting sick.

@Gargron Yeah, while I did create a Librem One account I still plan to use my mastodon.social one. While I can support the idea behind librem one and think trying to unify everything is a good idea, the implementation is pretty sketchy so far.

@Gargron

is their instance social.librem.one? "We are never gonna moderate this place" sure sounds like a reason for me to pre-emptively silence them on my instance.

@Gargron
First, why on earth are they not moderating!? Second, "alt right" is subjective, do not just throw around terms and say anyone who is different is unacceptable and deserves to be censored.

@Gargron I'm totay with @purism on this. You are just a victim of an ideology and this makes you intolerant towards the opinions of other people. Get out of your echo chamber.

@alexl @Gargron @purism Indeed!
Federation can either be a way around censorship or another way to have censorship. Not both.
"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It"

@danielst @alexl @purism You need to get it out of your head that promoting ideas of genocide has any positive impacts on society.

@Gargron @alexl @purism
I don't have that in my head. (That's what the quote is for)
I hate it!
If it is illegal, the person has to be persecuted based on the law.
In Germany, Lawmakers wanted to "block" access to child porn - instead of becoming better in taking it down, in accordance with the law. Freedom activists like @Digitalcourage protested.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitalc
It does not mean they embrace abuse.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon

Server run by the main developers of the project 🐘 It is not focused on any particular niche interest - everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!