Just FYI I have not done any more work for Purism since Todd told me the decision to not moderate Librem Social was final. I've already seen some alt right personalities on there and that's not fine with me.

@gargron will block the librem instance then?

@gordon The approach to domain blocks is to avoid them unless:

a) the server is *specialized* for something that breaks our code of conduct

b) or if the volume of individual mod actions required to handle violations from that server overwhelms the mod team

Until that happens, we try to moderate against individual violators

@gordon @Gargron Please do that, it's a disaster for the entire fediverse to not be able to moderate properly...

@Gargron Yyyyyikes, I was considering their phone there, but if this is their approach to moderating anything, that certainly is a bullet dodged.

@MezzoM5 @Gargron hardware and even software can be good without services offered by the same people being good, and vice versa

see also: pretty much every company tbh. remember the facebook phone? and google+?

@wilbr This is true. However, some of these companies are far easier to avoid than others. Facebook and Google and incredibly difficult to get away from considering they have spent a great deal of their time spidering themselves across the board. This fact is pretty much true.

That does not mean that people shouldn't take a little bit more time to be mindful of the tech that they use. I don't blame them if it becomes overwhelming. This is my personal choice to make here is all.

@MezzoM5 for sure. I guess what I'm getting at is that you can buy a Librem phone and have it be a good, moral, pro-privacy, pro-every-good-thing decision, while acknowledging that their decision to not moderate their Mastodon instance is a bad idea.

I think Librem was honest about them being a hardware/software company but not much of a services company, and it's just in the Mastodon area where that's a big problem (email admins don't exactly moderate their users' behavior, for example.)

@wilbr Well I suppose, though that's where a lot of my trepidation stands is in that fact. I know it's a little hard to do well in everything, that much I understand for sure.

However to just leave one aspect of service to the wayside in order to support the others, in this case moderation, strikes me as the kind of decision that is most definitely going to play out in their other aspects. Hence my initial trepidation with choosing them over the usual suspects.

@MezzoM5 for sure, good point. I think I rest slightly on the other side of this judgment call but depending on how much I trust them or what I want from them I might make the same exact decision as you.

I guess at the end of the day I just neeeeeeed hardware OEMs that package opensource OSes. All of this freedom-supporting stuff we're talking about is bullshit if Intel, Microsoft, and Apple control everything.

@wilbr For sure. Again it's just a sticky ordeal entirely to combat companies that have spent a lot of time and resources to being the top service. It's more than any one person can deal with, so we do the best we can.

@Gargron If he's refusing to moderate alt right stuff then I'll also have to block his instance.

@Gargron #logiciellibre So do you recommend an alternative to the Librem 5? I still use a dumbphone (small, non-touch-screen). I see no point switching from a small basic phone that spies on me a bit to a big phone that spies on me a lot more. But I've been seriously thinking of getting a Librem 5. Until now. What are arguments for/against the alternatives?

@boud I can't give advice about hardware. It is not my speciality

@boud @Gargron hardware-wise there won't be alternatives to the librem 5 at first. Theres the necuno mobile and pinephone, where pinephone as far as i know is underpowered, the necuno phone is way outside of most peoples budget.
The librem 5 seems to be the best bet for most people wanting something thats truly open, and still expect to have a reasonable experience running linux.
Plus the amount of work done on that thing is astonishing, not only purisms.

@vancha @Gargron Thanks for the overview (30 May)! All three are listed near the bottom of , although the WP:RS'd info is rather sparse, and there are several red links.

@boud @gargron
I would like to think that a regular old Smartphone with a free and open custom ROM like LineageOS (or Sailfish etc...) but without Google Play Services (and not linked to a Google Account) should be okay-ish, assuming you pay the same type of attention as with your PC.

... But I'm not really sure about this. I find it hard to find definitive information on this. I'm currently on regular Android, without Google account, and a bit afraid to make the jump to LineageOS

@boud @Gargron just a heads up, Pine64 is planning on releasing a Linux phone at the end of this year, the PinePhone. specs will be fairly low-end compared to the Librem5, but it'll only cost around 150-200€, so that might be a good alternative for you.

@NoGodsNoSenpais @Gargron Pine64 looks interesting: Do we know enough about the people and methods at Pine64 - a company registered where? - to trust what has been done at the hardware level to avoid hardware backdoors like the equivalent of the Intel ME? The pine64 webpages give an impression of a community-run project, but the key people in Pine64 Inc. don't seem to be listed apart from Johnson Jeng in interviews cited in the Wikipedia entry.

@Gargron what do you mean , you want to control and censor ? I'm on mastodon because i thought freedom of speech was respected here

@starfiend You have read and agreed to our server's code of conduct when you were signing up.

@Gargron @starfiend And if you (actually) read the CoC and disagree, there's plenty of servers you can move to that might suit you better.

Are you "alt right"? Or just against platforms trying to control opinions?

@yisraeldov no, not alt right lol just hardcore freedom lover.

@starfiend But didn't you know that means you are "alt right"!?

But seriously, I hear that the services from purism are not moderated. They are in germany so, IDK what that means exactly.

you can also just run your own server, ( I think I plan to do that soon )

@starfiend "Free speech" doesn't exist on private platforms you fucking troll.

Go lick some nazi boots elsewhere. We don't want you here, anyways.

@ansuz you fucking twats makes me laugh. If there is a group that should defend freedom it's you guys. You that where isolated,pointed fingers at, bullied. Now that you made your place in the mainstream you ask for censor ? Go fuck yourself. The nazi where censoring by the way, they didnt like FREEDOM of speecg orxany kind of freedom. So i wonder who is the fascist between you and me ...

@Gargron do you mean active moderation specifically? (Where they appoint moderators to watch the public timeline).

It looks to me that they have a passive form of moderation.

@springbov @Gargron they have explicitly stated they will not moderate hate speech, thus giving a platform to hate groups. Other forms of harmful content that ddoesn’t fall under “harassment” will be allowed as well.

@brainblasted @Gargron I appreciate your response. I'm having a hard time tracking down their statement about allowing hate speech. Is there a link that I can click on (to read myself)?

BTW, I agree that hate speech should not be tolerated and should be moderated.

@brainblasted @Gargron I think I see what the problem is now. Thanks for taking the time to fill me in!

Yes. This point in their CoC...
"Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences"

#Censorship is removal of #FreeSpeech, no?
I also notice the other section on #harassment which surely is a two way street!?

@Gargron Maybe you should work toward better tools to allow users to self-censor rather than rely on censorship overlords. On Usenet and email, we can filter on all headers, subject, and body content. Pictures are harder, but there's probably algorithms that could detect symbols and cartoon characters.

@gargron Yeah... social media needs moderation the way cities need sewers.

If you don't have them a bunch of people start getting sick.

@Gargron Yeah, while I did create a Librem One account I still plan to use my one. While I can support the idea behind librem one and think trying to unify everything is a good idea, the implementation is pretty sketchy so far.


is their instance "We are never gonna moderate this place" sure sounds like a reason for me to pre-emptively silence them on my instance.

First, why on earth are they not moderating!? Second, "alt right" is subjective, do not just throw around terms and say anyone who is different is unacceptable and deserves to be censored.

Get fukt, nazi sympathizer.

Oh, and also, fuck the alt-right. Every. Single. One of them.

Right into a god damn meat grinder, after they are given the wall.

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