"There’s Now an Even Worse Anti-Encryption Bill Than EARN IT"

Get your IT business out of the US. This needs to have an impact on the economy.

How long can a business run from country to country? At this rate, soon there will be no place to land. Big businesses will comply and take the easy route. For profits.

@lohang It's true, a lot of places are passing bad laws around IT. Even the EU has incompetent politicians pushing for upload filters and all that jazz. But we also have the GDPR here, we seem to value privacy, so I feel like there's more hope here.

@Gargron but that doesn't change the fact that this bill addresses U.S. users. If your MAU exceed 1M it means you'll have to comply.

@strypey @RyuKurisu @Gargron @lohang It's a slippery slope. They will start with 1M, then it will be 1000 and then zero. We ought to be preparing for a situation where governments try to ban e2ee in common use. Maybe there will be exceptions for banks, the military, police and certain government departments.

It also shows how critical MiTM is to their business model. A lot of the apparent "genius" if finance and so on is really just insider information gained by questionably legal means.

@bob @strypey @RyuKurisu @gargron @lohang

there are only about 200 sovereign nations in the World, of which I guess a third have sufficient reliable infrastructure to host Internet services.

But any change needs way more than tech solutions; reducing social inequality and toxic/violent behaviour in communities would allow recreational drugs to be decriminalised and eliminate a main justification given by feds the world over for requiring access to encrypted data...


my experience of 25 years on the rave scene and the 5 or so years where new psychoactive substances were uncontrolled in the UK and widely available suggests that both need to be tackled at /exactly/ the same time, otherwise you end up with anti-social/selfish or even dangerous behaviour from some users (such as DUI), a backlash from non-users and further clampdowns/use of surveillance against subcultures where drugs are common..

@bob @RyuKurisu @gargron @lohang


There are different psychoactive substances and different groups of users, but the most devastating impact the former have on the latter is indeed seen when coupled with purely social and economic issues, inequality, lack of economic safety etc. This is the same in post-Soviet and UK post-industrial towns, same for opiates, inhalants, alcohol.

@strypey @RyuKurisu @Gargron @lohang


Exactly. I remember in 90s/00s neoliberal govts in UK and all across Europe briefly turning a blind eye to party drugs use (me and my friends could organise raves, laugh at the police and rarely got any trouble and this was repeated across the Continent) but without socially beneficial "daytime" employment its so easy for a sketchy hypercapitalist drugs economy to develop which can lead to addiction and violence..

@strypey @RyuKurisu @gargron @lohang


Also the mundane issue of transport is a big factor.

If all the parties are in areas 50-100km away and there is no 24 hour public transport, party folk end up driving to them and then drive back home whilst still slightly under influence, and they are sleep deprived when driving to work at 08:00 on Monday.

Collisions happen because of this, and that becomes a big factor in backlashes, moral panics, support for ANPR cameras, cops etc.

@strypey @RyuKurisu @gargron @lohang


Also needs return of self-regulation amongst partypeople.

It was only from late 90s/2000s most of the crashes happened, in spite of old bangers most ravers drove around in - this coincides with "cars/bling" culture crossing over with the rave scene *and* free parties going on for way longer on Sunday so those driving back get still sleep deprived.

BTW England/Wales only started testing drivers for drugs in 2015 and Scotland in 2019..

@kravietz @RyuKurisu @gargron @lohang


unfortunately here in Britain a lot of ravers decided they *liked* cars, roads and capitalism, and the cops were subsequently able to clamp down more because of that.

I remember the UK rave scene slowly merging with the modified car subculture and thinking "this really isn't going to end well.."

(Max Power was a UK magazine about cars aimed at young men)

@kravietz @RyuKurisu @gargron @lohang


I don't mean just stabbings and shootings (comparatively rare even amongst hard drug users), but shitty behaviour on comedowns, domestic violence and fights breaking out even amongst friends.

Saw far more of that in 25 years on the rave scene than any violence over debts/ripoffs. I do think drugs prohibition should end, but it must be done simultaneously with other work to improve social equality, or it will only get reintroduced..

@kravietz @RyuKurisu @gargron @lohang

@Gargron @lohang Also I'm not seeing anything worrying that way in New Zealand.

But we are in the Five Eyes who have been advocating these poor policies...


I'd like to point out that this is the Republican Party doing this shit.

U.S. based people can help get them out of office.

@Gargron Of course Mr. brown noser from Arkansas did it.

I had the misfortune of being in the same room as him once and he said a lot of things but meant nothing.


Its strange to me that they would have this delimiter.

"The bill’s wording is unambiguous: providers, across the spectrum of devices and information services, must design in the ability to decrypt data and provide it in intelligible form. That applies to providers that have more than a million U.S. users."

@Gargron If you work at, or with, a US company that creates or relies upon software that uses , have you added EARN-IT & LAED to your issues list?

@theprivacyfoundation I don't work at or with US companies. I'm German and in Germany

@Gargron Could be a distraction tactic to divert attention away from the EARN IT Act or to make it look reasonable by comparison.

@Gargron sadly it's not always that easy.

The UK government has been forced to drop Huawei from telecoms infrastructure because the US government is threatening to impose sanctions on any providers making use of their equipment, and that would make it harder for British-owned companies to compete in the US marketplace.

It is likely therefore that if this kind of bill passed, other countries would follow suit. So it needs to be blocked at source, if at all possible.

Sign in to participate in the conversation

Server run by the main developers of the project 🐘 It is not focused on any particular niche interest - everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!