To those upset about some design decisions in the iOS app: Nobody’s forcing you to use the iOS app. I’m fully aware that it takes a different turn from all other existing apps in some aspects, and that’s the point. If it makes the fediverse larger by retaining more new users, then I’ve succeeded and everyone benefits. If not, nobody except me loses.

· · Mastodon for iOS · 37 · 34 · 97

@Gargron It's puuurfect! 😄 don't let people tell you otherwise!

It's good there's a big range of choices.. for everyone there's something

@stux @Gargron but there aren't any other mastodon apps available for iOS, are there?

@schratze @Gargron Certainly there are, I have 3 installed already and there are many more 😄

@angristan @stux @Gargron @person okay but if there are so many, are the others any good?

@schratze @angristan @Gargron @person

Other than the official app I recommend 'Toot!' (paid) or Metatext (free)

@stux @person @Gargron @angristan @schratze Ah yeah, I use android.
My understanding is that apple products are a money pump for people who fall for the predatory advertising gimmicks of Apple.

@Andrii 🤔 uh okay.. I think Apple had overal much better quality products, i spend a huge time with it so I chose quality in this case :blobcatgiggle: I could also say that Android is for the people who don't give a shit about security and just want a cheap phone :bloblaugh: @person @Gargron @angristan @schratze

@stux @Andrii would you be so kind as to untag me from this discussion? :)

I'm an IT professional.
While it is true there is a broad range of android phones, some of which are indeed "cheap and crappy". However there are plenty of good phones as well.

The nice part with android if you for example get a phone compatible with lineageOS is that you can have full control of your phone.
I can use my phone much like a computer. I can use the same kinds of scripts I use on my desktop. I can SSH into my phone, do computer programming, compile things, run Linux cron scripts. Basically anything one can do with a computer.

Can't do any of that with an iPhone. And when the next iproduct comes out they often forcibly upgrade the old ones to make them slow or non functional to force people to upgrade.

With Android I have full control and it is easy to replace parts etc, so can have a good phone for years, and pass it on in good condition to others.

For any given usecase there is a perfect android phone.

Personally I like good battery life, and be able to run whatever apps I want. Also didn't want to buy something from mainland China. So got an Asus ZenPhone 5 Pro. Also my computer motherboard is Asus as well, top notch quality products.

@person @Gargron @angristan @schratze

@stux @Andrii @person @Gargron @angristan @schratze

As a cybersecurity researcher, I have to jump into this discussion. This is one of the most ignorant and misinformed comments I have ever read. Android's open source nature makes it many times more secure than any Apple closed source device, due to the fact that many security researchers such as myself can review the code. You must do nothing but trust Apple with theirs. Come back to me when Apple has the equivalent of GrapheneOS.

@stux @schratze @angristan @Gargron @person Seconding Toot!, which I really enjoy. ~95% of my Mastodon time is on there.

@a @stux I really love Pinafore on my phone personally :blobcathappy:

@schratze I don't know I don't have an iPhone. I hear @tootapp and Amaroq are really good though.

@person yes, but I think it has not been updated in a while.

But I hear Metatext is good (and free). My fav is still Toot!

@person back in the days Mast was also good and is also a paid app, I think.

Just checked: can‘t check, it‘s installed. But also here: long time no update :/

@person @Gargron @schratze @angristan @stux I’ve settled on MetaText, because mercury has no true ipad support, toot! is too ram heavy with multiple accounts, (and the side bar does not collapse), and others like star petrano feel like some kind of slot machine.. but if “roma” was more compatible, i’d use it more, because it has some really neat thoughts going on , but the file picker is broken… can’t share images for example.

@schratze iOS has the most clients across platforms, 7 of them.

@Gargron @stux @schratze I would suggest mercury, or metatext. Both are free and open source apps for IOS

@Gargron Even without these "functions" it's still my new favvorite :blobcathearts:

@stux @Gargron It's really not and it makes me think you might not even understand why what you made became so popular. The timelines are a big part of the experience and help everyone discover new users to follow, removing them might benefit the already well known (now recommended) members, but hurt the small to medium sized accounts, who rely on them for exposure to new users.

@TheCanine @Gargron Well yes and no! You can also see it this way: currently there are many iOS and Android apps for Mastodon already and they ALL include the local and federated timeline. BUT when a totally new user joins the app for the first time they are overwhelmed! Without the extra timelines in this app alone it gives people more rest and confidence I think. It’s not as overwhelming while they do get suggestions for new users to follow♥️👌🏻

@stux @Gargron I get if it was disabled by default, but just excluding it completely is something I find worse and worse the longer I think about it. Imagine small local instances, where you could no longer see what the people in your area are just talking about, while using the "official" app.
And while yes, there are other apps to choose from - luckily, with most services, the official app ends up being the most used one and it excluding features this important is a problem!

@TheCanine @Gargron To be honest I don't know the exact reason why it's not included :) I only guess haha!

At first I thought maybe Apple would deny apps with Public timeline access (like other apps banned from the stores, gab etc) but this is not the case with other apps so I suspect a good reason for this :)

I also get your frustration ;)

@stux @TheCanine @Gargron
My only problem is calling it "OFFICIAL" app for Mastodon.

@mur2501 But that makes sense right :blobcatgiggle: It's created by Eugen the creator of Mastodon 🤔
@TheCanine @Gargron

@stux @TheCanine @Gargron
From my experience with that word 'official' especially how big companies use it is that other apps are fakes and this one is the intended true user experience for Mastodon.(just see how Facebook put down the Barinsta app frontend for Instagram)

@stux @Gargron I talked to others and found this to be just another instance of Eugene ignoring the community and just forcing his opinion onto others involved with this project.
GitHub shows it too, this already happened with the "quote tooting" (people wanted it added, but Eugene didn't like it, so it was dropped).
It's also the case with markup in toots, where Eugenes decision causes an inconsistency between how texts get displayed on Mastodon and the rest of the Fediverse.

@Gargron The issue isn't that anyone's being forced to use an app. Folks are worried that this might signal design changes to the rest of the software that would kill the one feature Mastodon has to offer communities (the local timeline).

And if it's literally named Mastodon and promoted as the official app, you can't ignore the knock-on effects of folks signing up to smaller instances like mine with it. The #1 question that I get from new users is "how do I find folks to follow?" and as a small special-interest server that already has a curated community, the answer is always going the be the local timeline, because that's where folks with the same interest show up.

I won't be able to give that answer any more and it will 100% hurt new user retention to tell them they have to uninstall the official app and use a different one.

I think it's an interesting gamble, and I more-or-less agree with your reasoning about the federated timeline (though I'm specifically thinking about its use for harassment), but local is great and you're not the only person affected by your decisions.

@Gargron I like it and using it all the time so thank you!

@Gargron People are upset that you don't recognize differences in use from your instance, and a long pattern over the last few years of you shutting down any discussion that doesn't agree with you.

You run your projects as tyranny, not democracy, and most of us are here on fediverse because we despise tyrants like Jack or Zuck… You don't want to be on that list.

So try some democracy and maybe you won't always get this kind of pushback and mobs drawing pictures of guillotines.

@mdhughes @Gargron Good lord this is hyperbolic and entitled. He made a client that doesn’t work for as many use cases, trying to optimize for one (probably the most common). Other clients don’t stop working. It’s fine.

@a @Gargron The problem isn't the feature—well, it's a problem, but not the main problem—it's the way it's not implemented. Try reading that PR:

@mdhughes @Gargron I had read the PR. I still don’t see “the way it’s not implemented” being a problem. Every other client can still do this if it wants.

@Gargron People will always know how they would do something better if they did it in the first place. But they didn't.

On that note, you're kinda defending yourself by explaining why you don't have to defend yourself. And you're right. 😃

@Gargron I disagree with some of the design decisions, especially around the local timeline, but… that’s okay? I won’t use that client, but that’s fine. The vitriol I have seen directed at you over this is just absurd.

@Gargron the iOS app got me to try Mastodon so it already a win. I’m looking forward to trying the other apps and finding out what Mastodon is about.
Don’t like the app? Don’t use it? Fork it and make it your own? Use another app?

@Gargron Social media can be (but doesn't have to be) used as an outrage amplifier, exhibit 2526B.8n ☕

@Gargron That's disappointing to hear. I was extremely looking forward to it and assumed the lack of the local timeline was because the app was new and still finding its feet. The majority of the interactions I have with people on my instance are those on the local timeline. One of the biggest problems with Mastodon has been discoverability and this makes it even harder.

@Gargron Another big problem has been the lack of official clients. Nobody has developed an app which is consistent with Mastodon web and it looks like even you have failed to do that. That's all we wanted. I don't see how you can expect smaller instances to retain new users when you're not letting them see the content on those instances. I truly hope you change your mind. There's no point in using the official app if it lacks core features, and it's misleading to new users.

@Gargron People shouldn't have to install multiple clients to be able to use the basic core features. People shouldn't be forced to use the web version to access basic core features. The whole benefit of having a mobile client is that it provides all the basic core features it just works.

@nathan Why would you need to install multiple clients? Just install the one you like…

@Gargron Again, it's about consistency. There is no Mastodon app which I can use where I'm satisfied it provides everything the web version can. You literally have other people in this thread telling you they have multiple apps installed. There's a reason for that. It's not about preference. It's about usability. The official iOS app is literally missing core features, why wouldn't people install other clients? If you're going to develop an official app at least provide the bare minimum.

@nathan This is the bare minimum. More is to come later. I hope you can appreciate the economics of this undertaking.

@Gargron Wait, so now you're saying the local timeline will be implemented at some point? Because your initial post sounds like you're saying "if you don't like my decision fuck off" as if not having the local timeline is a design decision you've made which you have no plans to change.

If it's still a WIP then you need to let people know because this is a massive addition to the Mastodon ecosystem. MVP and bare minimum (from a user's POV) are two different things.

@nathan @Gargron I enjoy the local timeline too. It all depends on how much time I have too - if I have very little time, I use the personal timeline, if I have a little more, I check the local timeline, and if I have lots of time, I check the federated timeline. So, please do keep it around in the browser version Thanks!

@Gargron You lose? Wasn't the development paid from the donations made to Mastodon project?

Sign in to participate in the conversation

Server run by the main developers of the project 🐘 It is not focused on any particular niche interest - everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!