I have never heard the term "web 3" used in any context other than trying to sell some cryptocurrency, to the point where I cannot take it seriously at all.

@Gargron isn't main difference between web2 and web3 decentralization?

@emma Decentralization does not require crypto wallets.

@Gargron yes it doesn't. I heard about web 3 before I heard about cryptocurrencies... I'm not an expert but i think it is using blockchain technology (somehow)...

@Gargron are you familiar with ENS (domain names controlled by blockchain, impossible to be seized by any government)?

@emma @Gargron web has traditionally been decentralised. Centralisation accelerated with emergence of the so-called „web 2.0”, amusingly.

@emma @Gargron web2 was supposed to be decentralized content creation as well.

It was through the closing down of platforms backed by and advised by the same VCs that are now pushing web3 that web2 became a centralized advertising ridden hellscape.

@Gargron i always thought that web3 was ipfs and focus on decentralization.
And if it's not, it should

@Gargron 15y ago at TU Berlin our profs used web 3.0 for knowledge graph supported Internet. They expected more benefits from adding meta data to website source code.

I've heard it used to refer to chronological websites too...

@Gargron Hell, I didn't even take "Web 2.0" seriously, now that I think of it.

@Gargron same with the metaverse these days, which is sad because the metaverse is such a cool idea without all the corporate and crypto bs.

@Gargron I've never heard that before. I still don't take web 2.0 seriously.

@lain You'll be able to buy a lot of Mastodon premium accounts with that

@Gargron I remember seeing a commercial for some website that claimed they were on "web 4.0" because they were so advanced that they skipped web 2.0 and web 3.0, I think it was some travel agency or something. It's the sort of commercial that's so stupid that it makes me think "I never want to buy any product or service this company ever provides".

You are absolutely right that web 3 is often associated with cryptocurrency, but for me it means the same as take 3 as described by Sir. Tim Berners-lee.

@Gargron I still don’t know what “web 2.0” supposed to mean. Or “cloud” or “fediverse” for that matter. I rather listen to stuff about real things: Activitypub, blockchain, etc.

I thought the blockchain one is "dweb", aka decentralized web 🤔

@Gargron I've always viewed the "decentralized Web" as being one and the same as "Web 3.0".

@Gargron What Ethereum developers call the web3 looks like predation of the web as an actual technology, from another technology tying information distribution and integrity to economic transactions mechanisms, while what people on #SocialHub the “Web 3.0” would appear as reclaiming the Web 2.0 (“social web”) from monolithic corporations like Facebook.

The “social web” being different from the “Web 1.0” by enabling anyone to share contents on Wikipedia or WordPress, start an online shop on Etsy or something similar, without having to write HTML code.

As you can see, it wouldn’t make sense to add versioning semantics to three different eras if this wasn’t communication and the goal wasn’t to be catchy towards a non-technical audience.

@Gargron In other words blockchains call themselves the web3 as an EEE operation happening between two different technologies, while to paraphrase Tim Berners Lee our values "can be thought of as a mid-course correction".

@af @Gargron

Yes, I agree. Very annoying terminology use, an EEE operation indeed. They also try to capture "decentralized" for themselves and make reference to the "DWeb" and "DApps".

Maybe we should brainstorm a clear catchphrase as terminology that defines the open, human web.. the one that is for everyone, and constitutes the evolution away from the corporate web.

Maybe "OpenWeb" can already be this thing, idk.

@humanetech @af @Gargron

The scuttlebutts consider blockchains to be "P2P versions of centralized systems":

To participate in an Ethereum-based system, you must use the same blockchain. A cloned blockchain is stored in every full node, but each clone is the same.

Vs in the fediverse, many nodes use different software and are not clones but can still federate.

And with the stuff that @cwebber and others are working on, fedi shd be able to provide secure transactions.

@bhaugen @humanetech @af @gargron There are really two versions of decentralization: "convergent decentralization", which results in multiple people participating convergently in the same machine. If this is the "only" machine, then it can be snarkily called "decentralized centralization"

The other kind is "decentralized communicating encapsulated objects", and it's what the fediverse does by and large and also CapTP.

@bhaugen @humanetech @af @gargron
What Agoric has figured out is that the former can just be a node on the latter. See the first five minutes of

There are some times where you might want convergent machines. They aren't as many as the zeitgeist currently thinks.


Quite OT, but I'm having issues with fedi notifications and they seem server-related. Did not receive Reply notification of the above toots by @cwebber and @bhaugen

And never a notification of replies from Bob Mottram (whose account also doesn't show up on Mention right now).

Plus today this weird notification (see image) where Bob favourited me, but the post was from @alcinnz

Think its server-related because both masto Web UI and Fedilab android client don't notify me.


@humanetech @Gargron @cwebber @bhaugen @alcinnz @af I have assumed that this is a bug and changed the like behavior in #Epicyon back to be more similar to what it was previously. So now it will always try to like the post announced, rather than the announce itself, even though in the UI the announce should appear liked.

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