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Eugen @Gargron

Hey so, there's been a bit of a kerfuffle with Patreon lately after a terms of service change that threatens all sex workers

There's now an open letter to Patreon to please not do that openlettertopatreon.com/

The idea of folks losing their livelihood overnight for reasons I cannot see as justified is terrifying, and there's no Patreon alternative either.

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@Gargron

YET NO SEALED OR DELIVERED

what's all up with THAT

@bea @noelle @sydneyfalk that wet shotgun aint shooting shit

@Gargron @bea @noelle

well I mean it depends

if they emptied the water out just before the poster was painted it'd probably fire okay, modern firearms are far more resilient than older ones

of course that doesn't mean you SHOULD fire with it wet, just that you probably COULD as long as you empty out the barrels first

...

I feel like I'm pretty sure I went too far already so I'mma be quiet again now -_-

@b3yond I have reached out to Liberapay, they reject the reward/paywall functionality, which is a crucial part of the whole content creator thing

@Gargron oh, didnt know that... Didnt even realize :D
For me this wouldnt be a reason to spend money anyway, the rewards are usually not much for their price (of course).
I rather give out of principle

@b3yond @Gargron -

Liberapay is best for free content, but I have an account on Patreon too even though my content is CC-by

But now, when I began signing the petition I realised that I have removed the NSFW tag even though my comic contains some not sexual nudity. It just seemed so lame to not be listed because of US puritanism.

@Katharsisdrill @b3yond It's gotta be said that no strings attached donations have been around for a while but have not proven to be enough for sustainable living. As sad as it is, when you feel like you're buying something, you're more willing to donate. On the example of Mastodon's Patreon, I'm not sure it would be as successful if there wasn't a $1 paywall on the development Discord, and if I didn't offer various "listed as a sponsor in the credits" options.

@Gargron @b3yond -

I think that it is only fair that people pay for what they use - my creative commons comic is an experiment to see if you can make something with free content.

I suppose it is mostly a question about internet-culture how money is collected, but I do not know of course. Right now I earn my money on bitcoin-donations, grants and Steemit - neither Patreon nor Liberapay has really worked for me.

@Gargron Listing donors will eventually be possible in Liberapay, we're just not there yet.

On the other hand paywalls are much less likely to ever be allowed, as Liberapay is all about liberating stuff, not building walls. That said, if a few walls are necessary to get enough funding to liberate the things that really matter, then perhaps it's an acceptable compromise, but as of now we're not convinced that it really is necessary.

@Katharsisdrill @b3yond

@Liberapay @Gargron @Katharsisdrill @b3yond If you plan to add support for "rewards", keep in mind that donations might no longer be donations if you get something in return.

@b3yond @Katharsisdrill @Gargron @Liberapay I couldn't find anything about it in EU regulations. I know in Germany it may be possible to make donations with a requirement ("Schenkung unter Auflage"), e.g. get access to rewards, but it's quite difficult.

@Gargron How about creating a distributed Patreon-like software, now that you are done with Twitter?

@lertsenem @Gargron i'd be up for making a patreon that explicitly accepts adult clients but the problem would be ensuring some kind of funding that keeps me afloat

@lertsenem I love building stuff but I can't branch out like that. I mean I'm already messing with the youtube replacement as my vacation side project. I can't do all this alone. Plus I'm frankly not sure if decentralizing Patreon is possible. There's too much coupling to financial institutions. Unless you do cryptocurrency but then that's a different beast with its own huge set of problems.

@Gargron Well, I meant that half as a joke ("you took down Twitter, how about Patreon now?"), but when thinking about it I can't really figure how that would work either.

The best I can envision is multiple Liberapay-like instances, but I don't know how (or why) they would communicate. And above all that would leave connecting to the bank to the end user, and I can't imagine that being trivial.

@Gargron Anyway, if you rather take that job *after* taking down YouTube, I understand perfectly ؟

@lertsenem @Gargron

perhaps taking a look at OpenBazaar is of interest? It's a p2p bitcoin shop on IPFS... didn't try it but i'm tempted at some point for my music. it is not a membership platform tho.

openbazaar.org/

#openbazaar #bitcoin

@Gargron I've seen Libreapay (may be wrong on spelling) being used by some people.

@LienRag @Gargron simply the fact that tippee is a french project already gives me a better feeling about it. and curiously enough it offers many features that patreon does. it's a pretty close competition, it seems.

@luka @LienRag @Gargron Nope, Terms and conditions explicitly forbid pornographic content. tipeee.com/terms (look for "pornographique")

Liara Roux, the first signatory of that open letter, was suspended from Twitter today

@Gargron so when will this person find their way over here <3

@david_ross That's not an update, it's the same information as what I tooted. The situation hasn't changed so far

@Gargron it's an update from her adding the dimension of the film release hey

@david_ross Okay, I get what you mean now.

@Gargron I wonder if you could add choices to the "like" button. That is one of my favorite new features on Facebook, and I miss it on Twitter, LinkedIn, & Madrid in. Just a thought for the future.

@Gargron Worse yet: Even if there were a Patreon alternative, they would eventually be forced to do the same thing because banks, credit card companies, and other financial institutions want nothing to do with pornographic media of any kind.

I mean, yeah, stay pissed at Patreon for pulling this, but recognize how Patreon was pushed into this by much larger institutions—then get mad at those institutions.

@Gargron @Stephen_Stone The thing is, most of us are already mad at those institutions over this and other offenses. Some of us are looking for an institution to push back against the Puritanism, and companies like Patreon, Smashwords, et cetera, keep looking like they'll be the one to fight back on our behalf, only to roll over.

Smash capitalism.

@Gargron I'd written my own response on Medium to the legal guy who made the blog post. It's nice to see the organized response. Signed.

@Gargron Do you happen to know if any of the creators have checked out LBRY? I'd be interested to know if people consider that a viable alternative, and, if not, what it's missing.

@Gargron At least for media content - I'm guessing this will affect adult game creators as well.

@Gargron this is gonna effect one of my good friends who is poor and trans and honestly most of the people being hurt by this are women and trans ppl who NEED their patreon money to make ends meet and pay rent