Patreon but it's self-hosted so you just connect it to some payment providers on your own 🤔

@Gargron I could hack this together on top of wordpress in a few hours, tbh.

@ajroach42 @gargron Not much hacking needs, WooCommerce for WordPress pretty much has everything for that. I've used that as a secondary funding source for a while now and it lets you have multiple providers, subscriptions (with an API), and all.

Thinking about moving to that more completely with the current news.

@dmoonfire @Gargron Right.

My thought was that it would take a few minutes to put together some kind of system for backer only posts and multiple reward levels, and it would take some effort to make it all user friendly.

@ajroach42 For my sites, I just need to find a good static site generator version so I don't have to have WordPress. :)

@gargron *does the spongebob rainbow arms thing* finance

@gargron by which i mean wouldn't you inevitably probably have to hold some money in escrow, thus putting anyone who tries to host one in the purview of local financial regulations?

@gargron i assumed by self-hosted you meant in the same way mastodon is, where each community hosts their own. in which case the community's instance might have to serve as a third party in transactions, potentially

if you're expecting everyone to individually self host one, i have no idea how that would work out

@chr Yeah but like people install wordpress for their own personal blog or art gallery right? This is in the same vein.

@Gargron I think @chr is assuming that the service would do payment processing directly. The key is in using a third-party payment processor so that you don't have to deal with the financial compliance.

That said, from a user perspective, how important is it to have a single pane of glass to manage my contributions? I suspect it may be pretty important. This means you need either a centralized or federated system.

@Miller_Geek @gargron the value add of patreon is that it _is_ the third party payment processor. so i'm not sure what good a patreon replacement would be if it didn't serve that purpose

@chr @Gargron Well with the new fees using ANYTHING else, including Stripe, would be a better value

@chr @gargron what if: cryptocurrency used as money instead of garbage gambling

@gargron @chr Yeah, and that's precisely the problem. It's trivial to do internet stuff with, tough to buy food with, and impossible to pay rent with. Also it's hard to get because otherwise it would be easy to steal.

@nightpool @gargron The work happening in the W3C Web Payments group may make it easier, and this dream reasonably possible. But I think it's unclear right now IMO... it depends which direction the group goes in.

No but people are right that's not really helpful. Benefit of something like Patreon is it's easy to support multiple creators at once and also trust of your data. And payment plugins already exist for WordPress etc so that's not the defining difference

@Gargron I do think a lot of it is creators not trusting themselves to set up something like that on their own, even if it's just plugging their Paypal info into their WP install.

@kiriska @Gargron We need pushbutton deployment but we're a long ways off from having any but proprietary solutions in that space, I think.

@kiriska @Gargron As a patron, centralization has been nice. One lump sum monthly, rather than half a dozen small payments.

@seanl WELL


but also i'm not quite an average internet user

@Gargron Community makes the difference. People like having an ecosystem in which to be able to share, explore, and find more ways to connect with various creators and audiences.

@Gargron yeah, the whole selling point of Patreon in the first place (IMHO) was "we bundle up a whole bunch of tiny payments to creators you want to support so there's only one transaction fee", and now here they are putting a transaction fee on every single pledge, we may as well just all go back to the 'Tip me on Paypal' widgets.

@anthracite @Gargron On the up-side: Perhaps this will mark the return of Amazon gifts 😉

@zerok @Gargron god i hope not, I have enough stuff already, and an increasing number of reasons to feel iffy about Amazon.

@anthracite @Gargron i wonder who demanded a return on their investment to cause this to happen

@slipstream @Gargron they sure did put out a post last month crowing about their new infusion of vc...

Wait, I thought the point of patreon was rewarding recurring payments. They have to cover their operating costs somehow, obviously. I'd have expected that everyone was charged some fee already.

Why doesn't everyone asking for money just publish an account number for people to set up monthly transfers to? Tricky bit would be to monitor who's actually paying, if you have reward tiers. That needs API:ifying all the banks ála boobank (

@tomas it used to be payment processor fees + 5% to Patreon + lower processor fees on the way out, now it’s just one processing fee that presumably includes P's cut and is a LOT bigger for people doing multiple small donations.

They used to make micropayments viable by bundling them, now they’re killing them with this new transaction fees.

As to why we don’t just publish account numbers... transaction fees are generally stupid high on small transactions, also patreon's ability to track that you made 5 things this month and ding patrons for donation*5 is damn handy.

Sending money to someone never cost me anything. Only crypto has that problem. Perhaps things are different in the U.S

@tomas yes, they are - anything besides handing someone a handful of cash incurs fees.

Oh, and if we give out the account and routing numbers, then there's nothing but trust to keep the person who has it from swiping every single dollar in the account.

American financial institutions kind of all suck ass.

@anthracite So you can just go "please send money from this account to that" with no identity checks? Not even some extra numbers only the account owner would have? Why? Do even IBAN transfers work?

@tomas Yeah it's pretty fucked up, isn't it? If someone gets these numbers and abuses them, it's YOUR fault for defending insufficiently against "identity theft", too, not the bank's fault for "having total garbage security". The banks spend a lot of money buying politicians to keep from having to, like, set up systems that have the faintest whiff of security; we have absolutely no functional limits on how much a corporation can donate to a politician's campaign here. And for what it's worth that lack of a limit probably explains almost anything that looks utterly insane about the US. Please invade us and save us from ourselves if you ever get a chance. It's pretty crazy.

Google tells me the US does not participate in IBAN, so they don't work.

Hey, limiting bribes^Wcompaign donations is a violation of Freedom of Speech! /s
I joke quite frequently that the U.S. should invade itself to give itself some democracy. This may end up tragically prophetic given the way things seem to be going

@Gargron PCI compliance is really hard. A single use payment token like a single use credit card number would solve this. Bitcoin showed promise but the fees are too high. Perhaps solving this is a prerequisite?

Aren't there a bunch of wordpress subscription plugins that do that kind of thing?

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