Eugen is a user on mastodon.social. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse. If you don't, you can sign up here.
Eugen @Gargron

"Please be aware, that we aim to provide a code-of-conduct free zone within our assembly. Enter at own risk."

Look, I'm a big lad, but even I wouldn't want to go to a conf where that's written on the door lmao

events.ccc.de/congress/2017/wi

· Web · 21 · 46

@Gargron @bea When people boast that their meeting will not have a code of conduct, I'm sorely tempted to interrupt that meeting with an air horn and demand Szechuan sauce.

@bstacey @bea my IQ has increased after reading this toot

@wxcafe @bea @Gargron @bstacey Eeeeh, the Wau Holland peeps are very much an in-crowd of CCC (and a pretty problematic one...)

@kellerfuchs @wxcafe @bea @gargron @bstacey Nah, few people actually like them and they aren't that well connected anymore, especially after many people finding out about Wikileaks working directly for Trump's election.

Then again, the whole congress doesn't have a real code of conduct, but just the "be excellent to each other". I guess what they are saying is that you don't need to be excellent to them.

@bea @Gargron @bstacey I think this is officially called Stacey's Rules of Order and needs to be distributed en masse

@bstacey @Gargron @bea I think CoCs are worse than useless (i.e. dangerous) when there is little or no expectation of bad bahaviour.

That said, bragging about how you don't have one, well that is probably an endorsement of bad behaviour.

@bstacey @bea @Gargron Even though I'm not a great fan of CoCs, a) this would be hilarious b) explicitly declaring and advertising their absence makes it look like you're intentionally trying to start shit.

thoughts on "code-of-conduct free zone" type junk Show more

@bstacey @Gargron @bea Right?
Just go in banging a gong and schilling Microsoft products.

Hey, no CoC, it's all good.

@Gargron jfc no fuck everyone involved with that.

@Gargron my experience of setting up an enormously successful hackspace was a load of middle class people saying "we don't need a code of conduct, we're all good people here" then almost immediately getting their asses kicked by an unexpected sage spaces sitatuation that had really serious ramifications for several people.

@Gargron haha, safe spaces. Sage spaces, if only.

@nach @deejoe @Gargron Can't just trust that people will behave in a large group.

My local hackerspace is a small group and we have not had a need for many rules. But if we look at the hackerspace in Helsinki, we can see that they wouldn't have gotten anywhere without rules, and the people enforcing them.

They've had to ban: political party meeting and campaigning, high voltage electrical systems unless you're certified, uranium(!), and of course a number of individuals.

@nach @deejoe @Gargron @vurpo same applies to CoC-style rules of course, even though I don't have as much personal experience with that.

@Concerned_Commy just that someone brought uranium into the hackerspace, that person is now banned and so are any potentially dangerous radioactive substanced

@vurpo why would someone bring uranium into hackerspace

@USBloveDog @vurpo why would they think its acceptable to bring in uranium

@Concerned_Commy @USBloveDog @vurpo We had a similar experience years ago, someone brought a piece of uraninite (only a few dozen grams but still), they thought it was harmless because the amount of radiation these give off is harmless, but they fragment into dust super easily, which is super toxic

@Gargron This just means that the code of conduct de facto is the one the largest group implicitly shares. Minorities beware.

@troubleMoney @Gargron just add an "here be Assholes" sticker to the community map, tape up the assembly entrance with biohazard tape and leave them to skyping with Julian.

@Gargron I'm already going now but I'm kind of shocked that the CCC organizing committee, after years of protecting JA, now has the gaul to say something like this. It's really sad :(

@cjd This was not from the organizing committee, but from the user-generated description of one of the self-organized assemblies. There are dozens of those on the Congress, see events.ccc.de/congress/2017/wi

@galaxis Is "Wau Holland Foundation" not like the same foundation which is the organization behind the CCC ?

@cjd No. There is some overlap, since Wau Holland was quite an important figure for CCC, see wauland.de/en/about.html - as far as Congress is concerned, they're just guests though.

@cjd @galaxis Don’t judge on one wiki-page from WHS. And they reacted already: https://twitter.com/wauland/status/942846125849153537

@ccc @galaxis
Ok, I don't need a legalistic document saying what is and is not acceptable behavior, if the CCC doesn't want to do this then that's fine.

But please tell me there's someone on site who is trained in dealing with sexual assault, harassment & stalking and who does have the power to throw people out. This stuff is complicated and normal people (myself included) don't know how to address it if we see it.

@cjd @ccc @galaxis There is an Awareness Team who will be walking around & reachable by DECT and birbsite ( c3awareness), and who will help with conflicts and are generally able to answer questions and deal with stuff that comes up. They are good people, and last year they had the power to ban people from congress if it came to that, I expect that would be the same this year. If you run into trouble or witness it, get in touch with them :)

@cjd events.ccc.de/congress/2017/wi
Scroll about halfway down to the english version.
If you didn't bring a phone for the internal DECT network, and there's any trouble, go to the CERT helpdesk (events.ccc.de/congress/2017/wi) or talk to any of the door angels which should be at all of the conference rooms.

@galaxis @ccc @cjd gonna tag in @NerdResa here as well! Not sure if the Awareness Team also has a Masto account...?

@cjd @galaxis Did you actually read the text?

@ccc @galaxis
Yes, as a matter of fact I did, and it was not completely clear what was going on but best I could tell, the Awareness Team has no special training or incident experience and unlike the CERT, does not have the power to ask people to leave.
This is why I was asking for clarification.

@cjd @ccc @galaxis the teams including awareness are working strong together. No team would ban someone without consulting with others. The initial text as well as the apology are 💩 but luckily doesn't fit the overall mind. I would still prefer a real CoC.

CCC Abuse Show more

CCC Abuse Show more

@ccc @galaxis @cjd
Also rapists and violent people are welcome? Looks like...

@cjd @gargron Wau Holland Foundation and CCC orga have overlaps afaik, and Andy Müller-Maguhn is an early&prominent CCC member. What's more, the update they posted basically says "You dont like it, ok, we're still doing it." - from personal experience these guys are some weak sauce. They sit amidst their Assange fanboy-castle and cling to times long past... not open to discuss their positions, they are a relic of whiteboyhaxx0r glory days. (yes, the rant is now done, thanks for reading^^)