The thing is, there's literally nothing between instagram and mastodon except the way it looks.
@gargron And the linear timeline? And the lack of forced ads? And the fact that you can change how it looks through skinning? And different clients? And multiple accounts?
@Gargron haha I've always likened mstdn to be more like twitter than instagram since posts can be words only comparative to media-centric
@eecks It's a superficial difference - add a requirement for posts to contain one media file, forbid more than one, and you've got that covered.
@Gargron Haha I can't argue with that but from a user standpoint, the UI makes a huge difference on whether Others starts using the platform (tho I still like mstdn for what it presents, I'm still on the platform anyhoo)
@Gargron i dont think instagram is mostly textposts
@kai @Gargron see, THIS is a cool idea... why not have an image-only mode for mastodon? since this is essentially what people want out of instagram (a media timeline), it would make sense to not have those be two totally separate services. a client-app could do more but base-mastodon needs a way to filter for media.
@Gargron having to expand images out to view them one at a time is a big usability difference. I'm not complaining about masto, I'm just pointing out that "looks" can also make a difference in usability.
@Xyc0 Yes but it is looks. You just need a different webapp.
@Gargron im not sure i follow. using custom javascript clients i can make anything look like anything. or is there an option now to change the webclient that a mastodon instance sends?
@Xyc0 Not an option but it would be a trivial code modification to make it serve different JS.
@Gargron are you referring to something like that twitter-like app? i forget what it was called.
@Gargron sorry, im not trying to be dense.
@Gargron
....that is not true?
Instagram requires a picture for every post.
Instagram isn't federated. There's only one timeline, and it's people you follow.
It's mostly based around showing the "best you", which amounts to a highlight reel. Here, we can be completely honest and nobody unfollows for that.
@ThisQueerBashesBack @Gargron You deserve a cookie comrade
@ThisQueerBashesBack Friend I'm not defending instagram I'm complaining about when people say "I wish there was an alternative to instagram" when they're on masto.
@Gargron @ThisQueerBashesBack Yeah it always confuses me a bit because I haven’t had any difficulty posting or boosting photos whenever I wanted to here. The one bit of UI that I miss from Insta is the gallery presentation of media thumbnails for each user. This would be fairly trivial to add to Mastodon.
@gargron I think this is the thing about making very general ActivityPub backends... especially if you include the c2s api... eventually you hit the point where a lot of decisions are client-presentation. I've debated in MediaGoblin whether we should include "normal" social networking experience things. In the federation branch most of the backend functionality for that ended up growing... "Should we just not include this because it's not what our original mission was? Is that a good reason?"
@gargron We could end up at the point where people have very general AP backends and end up selecting their usecase-appropriate frontends. Would that be a good or a bad thing?
@Gargron I would looove to see a bit more media-positive presentation on masto, with better thumbnailing and fewer clicks to the gold when it comes to images especially 😍
@gargron I think the limitations of Instagram have been important for its usability and popularity, even as those limitations have been eased over time. Single photo, square photo, no links, no reposts, downplayed text -- all those limits made Instagram a certain kind of thing for users.
I agree that Mastodon servers could implement those or similar restrictions, and I'd love such a service, but it isn't just appearance.
@npd From a programming PoV those limitation are just appearance
@Gargron I'm totally down with how Mastodon works for images. I typically use it in a fashion more similar to how I used Twitter but I can see it working. 👍
@Gargron I started an Instagram-inspired Mastodon-backed Android app a month back but quickly learned that such a thing is beyond my skill level.
So I convinced my company to send me on a four month Android client so I could develop my skills. I plan to finish the image sharing app this year.
Hopefully someone beats me to it, though!
@Gargron saying that the only difference is "the way it looks" is really trivializing the role UX and design have in shaping how a software is used. Sure, tech wise they are very similar (so many things can map onto the same pubsub model) but the design of each afford completely different usages. It's very hard to get this "right".
That said, I think an image focused mastodon client (and maybe instance?) would be really cool, and if designed well could be a great alternative to instagram.
And possibly the ability to share posts to other media sites.
@RussSharek Hmm what? How come? (I don't use instagram)
The only reason I used Instagram was it's ability to quickly manipulate an image and then share it onto other social networks.
I didn't realize it had a timeline for the first few months I used it.
From what I've gathered (been writing user scripts and poking around the API), yes. My take on @Gargron's "except the way it looks" is the extent to which the interface, (e.g. https://mastodon.social) is decoupled from the backend.
The capability to reproduce most, but not all, feaures in Instagram are already in place/in-use.
1/2
trivial:
img-only Home timeline, like, reply, like qty, like a reply, reply to reply, img-only explore, DM, activity feed
!mastodon:*
filters + stickers (->client), polls, listed likers, >4 media, ppl tags, geotags, self-destruct, archive+saves+collections (->client), story, live feed, filter reply (->client), ads, peer spy, narcisists
!instagram:
federated, repost, limited mentions, url links, +emojis, competing UIs spoliers, pin, lists
*some intentional. client may handle some
@Gargron On Instagram you can crop, rotate and adjust photos, and add filters. Those are things I miss on Mastodon for image posting. 🤔 Plus when I'm bored I often tap the Search tab and it gives me a bunch of stuff very visually to peruse, which is all chosen according to stuff I follow and have previously *liked*, but that I haven't seen before - so I get a load of new stuff I'm quite likely to enjoy, which is nothing like the public timelines here.
@cassolotl your phone can already edit pictures like that :P (and I think your computer can, too)
@noiob True, I could use a separate app! It is offputting enough to do that that I never do that though.
@noiob I mean, can you imagine if Instagram required you to use another app to crop, rotate, tint, or otherwise edit photos? It would definitely not be as popular.
@cassolotl yes, I agree that it is a difference, and it definitely is possible to add to both the apps and the web interface
@noiob That would be VERY cool! :) One of the things that bugs me about Instagram is you can't make new posts or stories on it in a browser.
@cassolotl maybe that could be integrated into the drawing thingy for maximum image editing
@noiob Oooooo yeah! :)
you can if you can get your browser to identify as a mobile one (by overriding a browser's User-Agent setting) 🤓
@Gargron Oh and, I am getting quite into Instagram Stories. :)
@Gargron you mean they both are dick balls??? haha just kidding hopoefully oyu got the joke ;) xoxo love you