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Eugen @Gargron

Discussion of a feature that Diaspora* uses, called social relay. It's when there are servers that forward public posts to other servers github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/

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@Gargron
alternative to those relays, is to do it via 'groups'. Thought that's the way #friendica #Hubzilla and #gnusocial did it.

cc @deadsuperhero

@deadsuperhero @Gargron
hmmm, it sounds for me that 'forum/group' function from hubzilla/friendica (not shure about gnusocial)
is exaclty solving this issue.

issue:
new server with content so it doesn't feel empty.

forum:
just subsribe to any you want and you'll get the all that content.

in diaspora they're been focused on following hashtags. but you can only see hashtags that.are visable for your.sever, so you need relys.

@paulfree14 The differences are that groups are a specific subset of content being exchanged between participants, whereas social relays are more broad sets of public content being exchanged between servers.

You could say that the first example is like a mailing list, whereas the second is more like a firehose.

@paulfree14 I guess you could say that both things are different approaches to the discovery problem. If you're saavy and know how to find groups, that's not so bad, but if you're totally new and have no idea of where to go, discovering groups in the first place is much harder.

@deadsuperhero
* autosign
** guided sign up as in twitter where you will be askes to subscibe to some suggestions

@deadsuperhero
...but it could be also like an email list that 'everyone' signs to. And if that's to much, making very general ones like freesoftware (where then also everyone describes to...hmmm), or queer....etc.

where's the difference from the perspective of solving the described issue between doing it via releys and groups?

...thoght the positive side effect is, that I anyway like to have groups for mastodon xD.

@paulfree14 Don't get me wrong, groups are great, and I'd love to see them in the fediverse. It's a wonderful, wonderful feature.

I guess you could say social relay is a passive solution on the user's part, whereas groups are an active solution. Opting into a group is a conscious choice by the user, whereas the relay is more of a resource to initiate discovery for new users in the first place (and can be a means for discovering groups on other servers)

@paulfree14 @Gargron Ehh, the relays serve a different purpose than groups do. Groups themselves are a type of direct relay for an array of members.

The social relay itself is a way to fight a classic problem of giant instances vs tiny instances, where tiny instances only see a fraction of the content of the fediverse. The social relay was introduced to Diaspora as a way to make starting smaller pods easier, in the sense that you could more easily discover the wider federated community.

@Gargron Just reached out to Jason Robinson, who worked on the Diaspora implementation. He might have some handy insights!

@deadsuperhero @Gargron

in terms of ActivityPub it is just a relay which sends Announces when subscribed to. the Announces themselves are dropped, but the inside object is retained :)

I just know that if it does get implemented this will be the official illustration

@Gargron ActivityPub/SalmonSlap/WebFinger/WHARRGARBL

@theoutrider you joke, and yet now I feel compelled to pick that as a project name

@theoutrider it'd be an opportunity to try out the Crystal language, too

@Gargron ah yes, Crystal WHARRGARBL, the most addictive form of WHARRGARBL

@theoutrider @Gargron 🎶 "Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl... and WHARRGARBL" 🎶

@gargron @theoutrider You seem really anxious for an excuse to try out #crystal. :-)

@Gargron I think... NOBODY want to take this way. but a one idea.

How about set the big server for collecting all Toot on federation ? And if one instance needs the toot on another instance, just send a cue to that big server and translate received result to Users UI. All instance does not have the toot of another instance. Just that big server has Federation's toot.

PS. I know this way needs really big server. Because all transaction about Federation goes to that big server.