@imani @JStationX this is a really interesting question and something i've been thinking a lot about since publishing.

I would rather see games with sole female protagonists because of course I want to see stories played from the unique perspective of that character.

That said, I appreciate a game that allows its players to make heroes that are representative of them; letting them feel like the hero of the story.

@JStationX @imani the games I chose with character creators do still fall under the definition of 'female protagonist' and I do think it's important to know which games let you play as a character like yourself.

Anyway, it's an issue I'd like to explore in more details at some point but regarding the specific wording of this piece, I was just trying to be as helpful to my readers/fellow players as possible

@jasminehenry @JStationX yeah I agree with that importance, and to be clear it was not an attempt at criticizing the piece.

I just know sometimes when I am specifically seeking out female protagonists its a bit disappointing when something is marked that but is just a character creator. Doubly so when the world kind of reacts the same no matter what you choose. Like mount and blade and the guys in charge of industry in towns referring to my woman character with masculine terms.

@imani

@jasminehenry @JStationX

yea this is a good area of critique right, when is a female protagonist actually written as such as opposed to a failed insert

doesn't even have to be character creator

i didn't play horizon zero dawn, but i saw maybe a quarter of it and it felt like the protagonist could have been pretty easily replaced with a dude without affecting the story too much, which was a disappointment to me

@amphetamine @jasminehenry @JStationX That is a weird example. I think Alloy, like Starbuck from Battlestar Galactica would be a lot less interesting as a dude.

I guess Alloy is sort of a step in between. Like there is a story being about the characters gender, a story not being concerned about the characters gender, and a story ignoring or assuming male.

@JStationX @jasminehenry @amphetamine

Although Alloy is called little girl by people trying to demean her occasionally which would have different implications.

Overall there are a lot of different ways the different societies in the game world react to gender including the Nora being extremely Matriarchical, and other groups in the process of becoming more egalitarian shifting from a male dominated past.

@imani @amphetamine @JStationX I actually think HZD would be a different game if Aloy was a man.

I'm finishing it right now and I think that there are a few examples of people counting her out/her being unassuming perhaps because she's a woman.

There's also a plot point of a woman with empathy being at odds with a man who is bad because of his brashness/that toxic masculinity. I know that's stereotypical but if they were both men I feel that that situation would be different

@JStationX @amphetamine @imani Also! I know that Aloy being an outcast is basically just a cheap allegory for racism but if Aloy was a white guy rather than a white woman, I would definitely see her outcast status as being a lot different

@jasminehenry @amphetamine @JStationX She gets some shit for being a Nora as well right? That may be a more direct allegory?

@imani @JStationX @amphetamine I...think so? This game is really funny with race and I'm not at all happy about it. As an aside, I would have killed for Aloy to have been a young black woman.

@jasminehenry @amphetamine @JStationX omg yes! Although I don't know how confident I feel in them having handled that well.

@jasminehenry

@imani @JStationX

yea i think that's where i was bothered

i have a feeling "merely performative" feminism in writing is a thing that will result in a lot of tropes and not actually more female voices or narratives

it's too easy for the things you can separate and name as in these examples to be processed and incorporated by rote, rather than naturally arising from a truthful female voice

@amphetamine @imani @JStationX yes yes yes @ not actually using female voices

we need more games and characters that see women as we see ourselves. as passionate rather than shrill as understanding rather than just outright emotional. I know they say 'good writers can write any sort of character' but I really feel as though you can easily miss the nuances, or the depth of who a person can be

@jasminehenry @JStationX @amphetamine At least he apologizes at that one point for being needlessly cruel. Assuming I am thinking of the same person you are. But yeah fuck that guy.

@imani @JStationX oh that's a good point. I find that really frustrating because you can tell that women were an afterthought in that case!

@jasminehenry @JStationX Its extra weird in this case because like there are fundamental differences in some other areas.

One thing I did like was that the game gave the option to turn off Lords having sexist attitudes towards you. I kept it on though so I could just fight anyone who gave me shit.