@Wolf480pl
That was indeed my thinking as well.
@Shamar
I think to pull regular users in, we'd have to start with today's web. But once we have sway in the committees, you can begin to redefine what state of the art web should look like.
@Shamar@mastodon social It won't work. Just take some time to, say, explain recursion or graph algorithms, image compression or even cryptography math to a totally untrained user. We will never get to a point of end users to read or understand their software. IMHO, trying to do so is a waste of time that could better be spent on building more ethical solutions that just work for this crowd.
@MatejLach @Wolf480pl @cbowdon
@z428 @MatejLach @Wolf480pl @cbowdon My position is that they should be *able* to (perhaps with a little training), but not obligated to.
@Shamar We're at a point where some adults have issues understanding higher math, some even have real issues learning to master natural language to understand complex texts or express themselves. And we actually did invent an alphabet to help these folks: Icons. Symbols. Easy interactions. So far this works well. Will we be able to do meaningful programming on that level?
@alcinnz @MatejLach @Wolf480pl @cbowdon
@z428 @Shamar @alcinnz @MatejLach @Wolf480pl @cbowdon in simpler systems, the meaning of "meaningful programming" might be a lot different than it is in bloated corporate software. just want to get that noted.
@Shamar I think we very often fall victim to oversimplification because we have totally lost sight of how incredibly much specialized we already are - and how extremely basic and "trivial" some of the issues users are struggling with actually are. Google, Apple, ... are successful because they do better here, no matter why they do that.
@grainloom @alcinnz @MatejLach @Wolf480pl @cbowdon
@Shamar And now, provide those kids with, say, a batch of hardware and the most simple fully featured implementation of something like e-mail. Do you think they will have a chance to understand what happens, let alone fix it? If that was possible, most programmers apparently are pretty dumb, looking at how much time is spent on fixing ...
@grainloom @alcinnz @MatejLach @Wolf480pl @cbowdon
@z428 @Shamar @grainloom @alcinnz @Wolf480pl @cbowdon
My take on that is that most of the required info is already out there, but I am all for simplifying it.
I don't think that would lead to some massive influx of programmers, because some people just have different passions like painting, music and such and some just want to watch TV.
There's a pretty large artist community on the Fediverse, don't think they're much interested in the tech side and that's honestly fine.
@MatejLach @z428 @grainloom @alcinnz @Wolf480pl@niu.moe @cbowdon
Can they read and write?
Programming should be as simple.
Server run by the main developers of the project 
It is not focused on any particular niche interest - everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!
@Shamar @z428 @grainloom @alcinnz @Wolf480pl @cbowdon
But why? Is playing an instrument as simple as reading and writing? Is sculpting? I agree that it should be as approachable to these that want to get in. I just don't think the interest is as universal as reading and writing is.