This is something I have to reflect upon.
I'm under the impression that commercial exploitation destroys anything good that comes from hacking.
At times, I'd like a license stricter then AGPL for my code, just to protect it from "the market".
And I refuse to accept that being commercial is the only way to be useful to people. That's the ethics of Capitalism, and I don't like it.
Think of it this way: "non-commercial" is undefined, it *will* block a number of different uses of your work that *you* would consider noncommercial, but the authors (and lawyers) might be afraid that could be considered commercial by a court.
Why define your work via the lens of whether or not something is considered commercial?
If something is licensed NC, and somebody breaks the license, do you make them destroy their work? Do you make them pay you? What if they can't afford it?
If somebody breaks an SA license, the only thing they need to do is release it under SA for everyone. Everybody wins.
@Wolf480pl @kaniini @Shamar @cwebber @starbreaker here again ShareAlike or other forms of copyleft are way more elegant and effective than NC. You don't care if it's a company or a non-profit -- if they're okay with releasing their derivative work under the same license, that's cool.
If not, it doesn't matter what the organizational structure we're talking about.
It's clean and effective.
@Wolf480pl @kaniini @Shamar @cwebber @starbreaker it is entirely possible. However, if they release the advert as CC By-SA (as that's what we're talking about here) that means now *I* can remix it, and so can everyone on the Internets. If it's an "evil corpo", that is not going to end well for them.
Hence, they will not release it under CC By-SA. And hence they will not use by CC By-SA artwork either.
There are other reasons too, obviously (like: rigidness of evil corpo's legal departments).
And extremely anchored in corporate, commercial business models. "Let's release an ad on CC By-SA" is a non-starter, nobody would even consider suggesting that perhaps a discussion could be had regarding potentially thinking about proposing this.
@Shamar @kaniini @starbreaker @rysiek I'm skeptical of and concerned about commercial exploitation too. Problem is, "noncommercial" doesn't fix the things you'll expect it to, and will prevent things you want.
Here's a question: if Linux were noncommercial, should a community run nonprofit be legally allowed to run it in a commercially run hosting service / datacenter? Even if the hosting service profits from it? Can the cooperative collect dues?
CC's interpretation of NC is purposefully vague to be flexible: https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/NonCommercial_interpretation
In my opinion, that doesn't make it very useful; NC is mostly a barrier to combining with other FOSS licenses, especially the big copyleft licenses.
In some cases, artists and musicians feel more comfortable with CC licensing... 1/2
But, back to your example - I think a reasonable interpretation would allow use of those emojis as "not primarily intended for or directed towards commercial advantage or monetary compensation.", which is the CC interpretation (though not actual legal advice, precedent, or ruling). 2/2
@ebel @rysiek @cwebber @Shamar @starbreaker interesting... attribution can be difficult for artistic works too, e.g. combining CC graphics from multiple sources for print works or merchandise (where do you put attribution on a one inch button?).
OSM should probably also ask the contributor to license any of their original work under ODbL when they submit; dual licenses would probably make life easier in the long run, but also new versions of CC licenses can address this compatibility directly.
@diggity @rysiek @cwebber @Shamar @starbreaker
"Where do you put the attribution?" Sec 3(a) of the CC-BY-SA licence covers this.
Copyright holder gets to define a "reasonable manner" (3.a.1.i)
#OSM has a form letter ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3PN5zfbzThqeTdWR1l3SzJVcTg/view ) which asks the holder to agree that a mention on the osm.org/copyright page suffices.
Also CC licence forbids use with DRM (2.a.5.c), OSM licence allows it if you offer parallel download.
Have you seen the peer production license? http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production_License
I think its a bit better than a blanket NC license. What I really want is a license requiring income from a commercial entity be used to improve the software. Either by spending time working on it, or paying for others time.
I don't think we'll ever see a license that keeps a work free and freedom-respecting in every possible scenario, for every person on Earth, until the end of human time. That's too tall of an order.
Remember, license enforcement is the flip side of the coin here... and it's difficult or discouraged, usually. There are very heated battles over FOSS enforcement strategy right now.
If I don't think eternal copyright is a good idea for creative works, why should it be appropriate for software?
Admittedly I'm not sure we're going to see a penguin books reissue of the first fortran compiler, but still, it should be released to the public domain.
And most of the time that's entirely enough, because derivative works become licensed anew. The original's copyright might expire, but the derivative work is still under copyright -- and that's usually where the interesting stuff is happening and what people would like to use (or lock down).
Notice there is nothing about "noncommercial" in the GPL.
That's my point, NC is not necessary to achieve what people think it's needed for. And it's counter-productive and problematic in general.
There have been, for example, attempts to use licensing models to dictate use of software in weapons, in animal testing, and so on.
@cwebber @Shamar @kaniini @starbreaker @rysiek on the cooperative note specifically, there is the PPL and a whole history and culture behind it, discussed at length in this P2P wiki: https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production_License
...and then there's the JSON license, with the infamous "Good, not Evil" clause. That kind of thinking is good but leaves room for almost any moral justification; just ask Google ;)
IMO the friction introduced outweighs any benefit from these unenforceable clauses
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