i3status is honestly an example of everything I hate about most foss projects. it's taken them over a year to accept that some people want memory usage in their status bar, and since then almost 4 people have implemented the same code over and over again because they're too stubborn to accept it.

the same thing has happened with displaying keyboard layouts and they're still not convinced. I'm tired of this.

the "fork or gtfo" culture in foss is toxic and it's the reason why more people don't use foss alternatives most of the time: they don't have the options they want, so they turn to proprietary alternatives.

the fact that so many developers are stubborn to implement features that they "don't like" even if people are handing the code to them on a silver platter, and the users clearly want it, is really fucking annoying.

@red
The real problem is that most people can't use the freedom to inspect and modify even if they have it on paper, FOSS has led to awesome things, but an increasingly narrow slice of people have to be the ones who make it that way.

@Shamar @Ashrand I think that what he meant was that a lot of devs end up not contributing to foss because of the hostile environment.

@red @Ashrand @Shamar

A lot of devs end up contributing elsewhere because either they're selfish capitalists, or they have a basic lack of education, ignoring too many things to make an informed judgement. And that's fine, and they're free to be selfish, as long as they don't blame everybody else for their own choices.

The idea that working on non-free software is a less hostile environment is simply laughable.
(yeah helping the adorable people at Oracle, Microsoft, and Apple)

@h

@Shamar @red
The notion that a hostile environment isn't and can't be a factor because everywhere else sucks too isn't an awesome justification though, and requires that you consider working in a corporate structure an alternative to FOSS development when, even if it's done as a hobby, the reality is people work on both, often at the same time.

@Ashrand @red @Shamar

It's not a justification, it's an explanation why using the term "hostile" to describe FOSS communities is something ideologically charged and completely disproportionate.

I have never seen any FOSS community that is nearly as hostile as working in a corporate setting.

People who believe this to be true at heart have never set foot in a corporate environment.

@h

@Shamar @red
My issue is with your assumption of a binary. You can be completely right about large silo development being similar (and honestly, even if it were that way, business at least has to pretend to provide support) but burnout in that kind of development is always a factor so the third option is "maybe I just won't spend time at the place I don't like" corporate environments only come out ahead then because they brought money.

@Shamar

@Wolf480pl @red @h
There are good points to be made however; free software is often collaborative, invites contribution, and is the result of competing ideals (your link is a prime example of what happens when 'free software' isn't one). Also might not be good art, but the act of making art is not exclusive, this is not the case for programming and is mostly why I think programming needs to be easier to learn.

@Ashrand @Shamar @red @h
>art is not exclusive
I doubt this.
I doubt that any random person who doesn't notice when they're singing out-of-tune can become a music star, especially without years of practice.

@Wolf480pl

@Shamar @red @h
Which is why it's important to know the distinction, art isn't defined by fame, children make art. The barrier to entry is nearly zero. "True Art" meant an opera, a symphony, a choir, or just years of graft, at one time. Then it meant fewer people, less time, and less money, all the while creativity and conceptualism are still core to it. Now art is easier than it's ever been.

@Ashrand @Shamar @red @h
Ok, children make drawings which are art. And it's not about fame.
But the horrible sound that appears when I try to sing, not hearing myself properly, and having no idea what's out-of-tune and what's not, IMO is not art.
And a text file that doens't compile isn't a computer program.
Now, one can learn to write programs that compile, or to sing not out-of-tune.

@Ashrand @Shamar @red @h
Then there's a leap to coming up with your own programs that do what you want, or coming up with your own songs.
Then there's a lot of practice till you can reach the level that lets you deal with the complexity of some widely known songs/programs out there.
Am I wrong?

@Wolf480pl

@Shamar
Not exactly, but that's why art =/= software. Artistic value is subjective to the viewer, parents really do value children's art, likewise lots of art (e.g. conceptual works, minimalist works) aren't defined by technical ability but by what you are trying to express. You can, as you are doing now, communicate with words, you have the prerequisites of authorship, but you can't code in every language, the barrier is greater.