Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I seem to have enjoyed Rogue One more that you did.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I actually like the prequels (with the exception of III) better than VII & VIII. I really don't like this new direction they're going with the main series. The anthologies, even the mediocre Solo, are more enjoyable for me.

How would you rate the Star Wars movies?

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey

I watched them all as they were released: original series, special edition, prequels, and now sequels & anthology.

I read a bit of that Machete Order thing, but discount it. It's release order for me.

As for ranking them, best to worst, here's mine:

5
Rogue One
4, 6
2, Solo
1
8
7
3

Can I ask how you would rank the movies?

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Ep. 5 & Rogue One had more emphasis on character & there was more of an emotional connection. It's hard for a novel or movie to get a reaction out of me, so I appreciate it when one does. They also had more thought-out plots, even if Rogue One was a bit rushed.

Ep. 3 was utter tripe. Anakin's conversion to the dark side was thin (& poorly acted). The whole plot was just a collection of loose ends that needed to be tied up in a haphazard way.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Regarding R1, names aren't important to me. I watched Molly's Game a couple of weeks ago & can only remember Molly & Player X (the latter one for obvious reasons). Yet I loved that movie. I can remember the names Finn, Rose, Rey, Phasma, Kylo, Maz, Poe, Haldo, BB8, from 7 & 8, yet I despise those movies. (That may be because there is a lot more discussion about the main series online than there is about R1, so I see those names mentioned more often.)

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I agree about the opening of R1, though. It was horribly rushed. A good example of how not to do things. But, once it hit its stride, it seemed to carry its own (I've only seen it once when it was first released). I think we knew who everyone was, what they were doing, & why. It seemed to be good adventure story-telling from that point on. I don't think the characters are any worse than the original series or Solo. They were certainly better than the prequels.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I haven't watched the 2 YouTube videos you mentioned, and I probably won't. I'm just interested in this discussion with you.

I also am not interested in any fan edits, machete orders, or or even Lucas's own special editions. I just stick to the original versions in the order they were released.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I want to start with a post you made midway through this last discussion about Luke's arc.

I actually don't think Luke (or any Star Wars character, for that matter) is a well-developed character. They are adequate for the adventure genre, but not in any way well-developed. Some are poorly developed (Anakin, Finn, Kylo, Poe, Qi'ra<--although she's at least likable). Most characters, like Luke & Jyn, are serviceable.

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Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Yes, I missed mentioning Luke coming to terms with his father who is on the dark side & his own possible flirtations with the dark side because I feel that was just window dressing. It wasn't delved into in any meaningful way. They could've done more with that, but didn't. I'd say glossing over that is par for the course for the original trilogy & the anthologies. Not a sin (like the prequels & sequels), because there is something there, just not well-developed.

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Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I'm not trying to belittle Luke. He's my second-favorite character after Han. I'm fine with people resonating with Luke, Han, Jyn, Rey, Rose, Leia, or Obi-Wan because they are all serviceable & have something worthwhile about them. Actually, the sacrifice made by the entire R1 team probably elevates them to worthy status as well.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
What can I tell you about R1 characters? There was Jyn & the guy with her (you said Cassian). There was a droid (K-something). There were the two guys from the Jedi temple (one was blind: "I am one with the force, & the force is with me"). I'd forgotten about the pilot (until you reminded me). There was the really cool villain (you said Krennic). There was Saw. And Vader, of course. All of them serviceable. And I've only seen the movie once a year & a half ago.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
What I remember about R1 is the faith, hope, & sacrifice of the characters. I remember each of them could've walked away. I remember the villain was cool & Vader was the most bad-ass we've seen (if a little incongruous). I remember it brilliantly explained a "hole" in the death star--which doesn't even need Ep. 4 to understand why it's important. And, it was Star Wars-y, like the originals, and the most emotional since Ep. 5. And by far the most meaningful.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I don't see where Solo is any superior to R1 as far as characters. I can only remember their names because I saw the movie recently. They'll fade, too, if I don't watch it again.

I'll take a cool, absolute "type" any day over a poorly developed "character". If the writer can't get the "character" right (Anakin), it's best not to even try. Just stick with a "type" like Jyn, Cassian, or a blind quasi-Jedi instead. Or Luke, Han, or Leia (or Indiana Jones & Bond).

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Re: Ep. 7 not having anything new, that's a relative term. You only listed a few things that it copied from Ep. 4 & 6. It copied much, much more. The sequels are the least creative from a story & world-building point of view. And, like I said previously, if the writer isn't going to write a "character" or "type" properly, best not even attempt it (ie. Finn & Phasma; but Kylo & Poe are pretty bad, too).

Also, I'm not obsessed with race or gender; they're people.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I like the character of Qi'ra per se, just that I wanted more development of her & their story. There was too much going on in Solo: his introduction, meeting Chewie, the train heist, meeting Lando & winning the Falcon, the Kessel run, Beckett & Dryden Vos. The character (& the actress) deserved so much more. I'm not being harsh, I'm wanting more. She was so good & their story so compelling that she deserved a larger focus, hence a separate movie.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I'd like to see a trilogy of Solo movies. There was a trilogy of Han Solo novels decades ago (also a trilogy of novels about Lando). And I think Alden Ehrenreich is signed for 2 more. But, I agree, a sequel looks iffy.

And, I just want to reiterate, she is a "great addition to the Star Wars Canon".

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Back to R1 for a bit.

The ending with Vader, incongruous as it is with his character in Ep. 4, & the transition to Leia is the perfect setup to the opening of Ep. 4. I've seen a YouTube video which mashes them together, & it is about as perfect as Star Wars gets. Gives me goosebumps watching it because we (now) understand the sacrifice & the hope.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
A fair point about Jyn being the child of the scientist, but that doesn't lessen her character. The writing was still consistent with how something like that would play out. Real-world spy agencies & criminal organizations use any angle they can: lover, family, friend. It works. And, kudos to them for not playing it as yet another secret family member.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I'm mostly OK with Vader in R1, with the exception of his badassery at the end. It makes Ep. 4 a bit of a letdown just because we see so little of him, but Ep. 5 & 6 are OK again.

Yes, Krennic was good, & heaps better than Hux. Dryden Vos was serviceable in Solo.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Also, I have no intention of ever watching Ep. 3 or 7 again. Actually, I can just watch Ep. 4 & 6 if I want to see Ep. 7. 😁 It's highly unlikely I'll watch Ep. 8 again, but I might. I have no intention of paying to see Ep. 9, but I'll try to read about it at least. I'll watch a couple more anthology movies because they haven't let me down (too much) yet.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
My view of character is slightly different. I get what you mean by "types" & am not disagreeing too much. I'm just saying that in order to be a "character" it has to be in a novel or movie that devotes a great deal of time to understanding that character--which is almost impossible in an adventure movie. Adventure movies have a lot of plot elements that need to happen, so they don't have time to develop their characters fully.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Let me use Han as an example because Harrison Ford has had a better career than Mark Hamill has.

I enjoy Han Solo the best of the Star Wars characters, and I'm a huge fan of Indiana Jones. Yet I'd say both are "types". Good types, but types. If I want to see a "character" from Harrison Ford, I'll look more to John Book from Witness or Rusty Sabich from Presumed Innocent.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Luke & Han are well written, but I don't view them as overly remarkable. They're "types" for me. They're serviceable. Same goes for Jyn & Cassian from R1. Luke, Han, Jyn, Cassian: they all serve their purpose.

Lucas attempted something more with Anakin in the prequels. He attempted to write something deeper. And he failed miserably because he only really can do "types". What Lucas had in mind for Anakin would've required a screen-writing master to pull off.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Again, I'm OK with Vader in R1. Fan service or not, the only problem I notice is his power is stronger at the end of R1 than what it is throughout the whole of the original trilogy. I think his role works within the frame of the story. It's internally consistent & logical with regards to that story.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I get what you mean about the the relationship of Han & Qi'ra in Solo, but it was just too spare. That kind of relationship needed more screen time. If she absolutely had to stay in there (& I'm still not convinced a totally different character couldn't work), then either reduce the time of the other plot elements or else add several more minutes to the movie's run time. However, as it sits, it's not convincing.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I agree a fair bit with what you say about Padme (but I'm not going to go too far down the rabbit hole of rewriting the entire trilogy). But, Leia isn't exactly a stellar character, either. I'd say George Lucas has a more traditional view of women.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I actually don't find Leia to be a stellar character. Perhaps the case could be made that she is marginally better than Padme, but I think it's just George Lucas who made them what they are. I also think Carrie Fisher's health played a part in her diminished role in 7 & 8. That, and Jar Jar Abrams inability to write adult characters very well.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I think Leia is OK, but not great. She's confident when talking with Vader, gets rescued, then has to show her rescuers how to escape. She's a commander-of-sorts on Hoth & then Han's love interest. She rescues Han, finds out she's Luke's sister, & helps bring down the shield generator. I'd argue we learn a lot more about Padme & her motivations--faults & all--than we do about Leia.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I felt the handling of Han & Qi'ra's relationship covered the bare minimum in an adventure movie to get the point across. For a guy who goes so hard on the prequels for this same thing, it's a surprise you give it a free pass here. Their relationship, as written, is not how that would have happened--without further exposition. The Kasdans wrote themselves into a corner, but neglected to write their way out.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
I agree, we didn't have Han & Qi'ra's relationship forced on us. Quite the opposite actually. But, neither Han & Qi'ra's relationship nor Anakin & Padme's relationship are well written. Neither relationship are how they would play out. We agree on the prequels, just not Solo.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
The reason why Han & Qi'ra's relationship isn't accurate is because they act so casually when they meet. It's like if I met a former expat co-worker at a social function in my city. In fact, I'd be more surprised meeting a former co-worker in another country than what Han was meeting a former lover on a totally different planet. They just make idle chit-chat. No feeling (or awkwardness) whatsoever.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
One thing to mention about Cassian & Jyn is something from Alan Furst, a writer about spies during WW2. He's rather famous for his steamy yet non-explicit sex scenes. He does a lot of research into the time period, primarily memoirs. He has commented that sex was the one true constant among people going through the war. I think he felt it was an emotional release on their part.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Han could've ended Ep. 4 (or 6) the same as he started Ep. 4 and still could've been a serviceable character. It all depends on how he is written & how much of an understanding we come to have of him through the events of the story & his reaction to those events. Sometimes the change is the story. Sometimes the fight not to give in to change is the story.

Star Wars editorializing 

@strypey
Actually, Han coming back at the end of Ep 4 was a bit rushed. Not bad, but that could've been handled better by a better writer/director.

They could've written Han's character a dozen different ways, & all could've been satisfying if done well. They could've written a Casablanca kind of ending, given him totally different motivations for joining the rebels, even killed him.

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