I honestly thought Australia would be able to get Covid under control like they had before, but the anti-lockdown brigade seems determined to let it run rampant.

@SlowRain Australia seems to be a police state right now, very destopian, too destopian for my taste.

@nomadbynature
Seriously? Aren't you living behind the Great Firewall, in the country that's throwing Hongkongers in jail, controls the press, & tramples any & all dissent?

@SlowRain it wasn't a comparison, so don't treat it as such. The fact that one entity does something wrong, doesn't mean that everyone else is right. Plus, I'm in Poland at the moment 🙃

@nomadbynature
It's just that I'm struggling to reconcile Australia as a police state & destopian. They're more Americanized now than they are British, & they're no New Zealand, but they have more positives than negatives.

@SlowRain I'm specifically talking about the lockdowns and hardcore crackdown on demonstrations. It's very scary if you're not allowed to get out of your own house for weeks on end. It's also scary not to be able to speak your mind or go against official policies/opinions (and again, it's not a comparison to any other country/entity).

@nomadbynature
The lockdowns & not allowing demonstrations are not to suppress opposition & keep the ruling party in power. It's for the very real protection of the people. The only countries beating Covid are the ones taking it seriously as a threat. The ones failing to beat it are the ones with uninformed governments & citizens. Australia is losing the battle right now because of their citizens.

@SlowRain yes, yes, everything for safety🙄 Well, you can't be safe all the time.

@nomadbynature @SlowRain Even if we could vaccinate every human, there are now many other species among whom covid is endemic. So covid can’t be eradicated and will continue to mutate.

So it’s necessary to balance the likely suffering any lockdown can avert against the suffering it is likely to cause. I’m not saying this is easy, but there’s no way around it.

@babelcarp agreed, and there are many, many unintended consequences of lockdowns.
You might disagree with me on that, but I think lockdowns were never worth it.

The covid cat is out of the bag and we can't put it back inside.
@SlowRain

@nomadbynature @SlowRain In April of last year in NYC when ICUs were full, lockdown was very much justified. Same in Wuhan a few months earlier, and …

@babelcarp let's not confuse initial lockdowns that were implemented to 'flatten the curve' and save health system with what's going on now, e.g. in Australia.

In my mind lockdowns are not a viable option, at the beginning it might have been justified to a certain degree, but now? Who wants to talk about mental health, domestic violence, increased economic disparity, any volunteers?

@SlowRain

@nomadbynature @babelcarp
There's nothing wrong with talking about it.

Have 75,000 people in Poland committed suicide, starved to death, or been murdered by a spouse this year?

@SlowRain
I was referring mostly to poorer countries, but these problems exacerbated everywhere. Not to mention the long-term costs that they cause (not referring to money only).

@babelcarp

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@nomadbynature @babelcarp
I picked Poland because it was likely to be the one you were most familiar with, but I'll hold that number up to any country in the world. I tend to value human life quite highly, & it's the benchmark I'm using here. The sum total of lives lost has not--& will not--be worth the cost of having people be able to carry on as if nothing is going on when a decent containment strategy could dramatically reduce the deaths.

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@SlowRain do you care as much for other diseases' victims? Or have you joined the 'stay safe' club recently?

@babelcarp

@nomadbynature @babelcarp
I take the same line of reasoning with anything that threatens human life. That includes drugs, driving, war, food production & distribution, natural disasters, etc.

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