I honestly thought Australia would be able to get Covid under control like they had before, but the anti-lockdown brigade seems determined to let it run rampant.

@SlowRain Australia seems to be a police state right now, very destopian, too destopian for my taste.

Seriously? Aren't you living behind the Great Firewall, in the country that's throwing Hongkongers in jail, controls the press, & tramples any & all dissent?

@SlowRain it wasn't a comparison, so don't treat it as such. The fact that one entity does something wrong, doesn't mean that everyone else is right. Plus, I'm in Poland at the moment 🙃

It's just that I'm struggling to reconcile Australia as a police state & destopian. They're more Americanized now than they are British, & they're no New Zealand, but they have more positives than negatives.

@SlowRain I'm specifically talking about the lockdowns and hardcore crackdown on demonstrations. It's very scary if you're not allowed to get out of your own house for weeks on end. It's also scary not to be able to speak your mind or go against official policies/opinions (and again, it's not a comparison to any other country/entity).

The lockdowns & not allowing demonstrations are not to suppress opposition & keep the ruling party in power. It's for the very real protection of the people. The only countries beating Covid are the ones taking it seriously as a threat. The ones failing to beat it are the ones with uninformed governments & citizens. Australia is losing the battle right now because of their citizens.

@SlowRain yes, yes, everything for safety🙄 Well, you can't be safe all the time.

@nomadbynature @SlowRain Even if we could vaccinate every human, there are now many other species among whom covid is endemic. So covid can’t be eradicated and will continue to mutate.

So it’s necessary to balance the likely suffering any lockdown can avert against the suffering it is likely to cause. I’m not saying this is easy, but there’s no way around it.

@babelcarp agreed, and there are many, many unintended consequences of lockdowns.
You might disagree with me on that, but I think lockdowns were never worth it.

The covid cat is out of the bag and we can't put it back inside.

@nomadbynature @babelcarp
No, most countries can't put it back in the bag, but we can certainly limit its reach much more than we're currently doing, & without anything as onerous as a hard lockdown. But people would protest that too. Resilience & determination among the general populace are sorely lacking in the 21st century.

@SlowRain I wonder what end do you see to all these lockdowns? Like I said the cat is out of the bag, not going back in.
You live in a first world thinking bubble, it's a rather selfish bubble I might add. @babelcarp

@nomadbynature @babelcarp
I think you spelled "selfless" incorrectly, as I don't mind sacrificing my conveniences for the common good.

Lockdowns just need to be long enough to break the chain of infection, get the symptomatic quarantined & treated, trace & test their contacts, & implement safety protocols for when the lockdown slowly eases.

Developing countries will have to implement a system that allows for work amid whatever precautions they can reasonably take--but at a higher human cost.

@SlowRain easy to say for a person who (excuse my presumption), has no hardship putting food on the table. @babelcarp

It's pretty hard to put food on the table when one is sick & wheezing in bed or when one is dead.

@SlowRain your logic goes: 'doesn't matter what kills you, as long as it's not covid'. 👏👏👏

No. My logic goes along the lines of keeping the number of deaths, Covid or otherwise, to an absolute minimum, but sacrificing conveniences & money to do so.

@SlowRain not your own I guess, but that's fine, everyone is selfish, just in different ways.

I for one, prefer to make my own decisions about my own safety.

We went through a soft lockdown here, but I was prepared for-- would have supported--a hard lockdown. My earnings are down, & I've had to spend more money getting equipment for online teaching. I've had to stay indoors when I would've liked to have gone out. I didn't mind making those sacrifices because it was the right thing to do. But we went semi-hard for a short period of time, & now it's better.


The difference is this, though. I'm actually not overly concerned about my own safety (or finances, for that matter). I make my decisions based on the safety of the people around me--principally my students. I'll let you decide if that's "ish" or "less" following "self".

@SlowRain no minds have been changed here (not that I was expecting it)

Even so, don't completely close yourself off to adopting a more selfless mindset in the future. You may not be open to it at this point, but if you do some reading about how this virus is spreading & talk with other knowledgeable people, you may come to a different point of view.

@SlowRain I'm glad you're staying home for my safety 👍🏻

Because of going semi-hard for a short period of time, the outbreak here is almost under control, & things are mostly open again. Now, that could change quite quickly, so we all have to take inconvenient precautions & make sacrifices when we go out, but it has proven to be very worth it. We have a population of 23M, & we had 4 local cases today. There are still unknown cases out there, so the people here continue to take precautions to protect each other.

Nothing will be postponed. It has been contained & vaccinations are finally starting to catch up a bit. The cost has been 900 lives, though, & I assume a number of bankruptcies.

It was unsettling for 2 months, but people here are really grateful that it's at least better now & there's a path--not to normalcy--but at least to manageable.

@SlowRain I've spent 7 months in lockdown in Colombia, so I've seen first hand what lockdowns did to some communities there. I haven't seen any grateful faces.

But it might work for the first world.

I don't know anything about Columbia's Covid situation, their outbreak, nor their pandemic response, but I can assure you that a 7-month lockdown is entirely a mismanagement by the gov't & the people.

We probably agree on a lot more than you think (other than that issue of personal safety trumping the safety of others). The thing is, you haven't seen how a pandemic is supposed to be handled. After SARS in 2003, Taiwan put into place a damn good response (Vietnam, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Australia, etc did too). When Covid hit, these countries put it into practice while Western countries sat on their thumbs & complained about their human rights.


These countries are all doing relatively well compared to the West. Australia is breaking down right now, but i think the others are holding steady. (Oh, yeah, Singapore, too.)

After this is over in a couple more years, the world is going to rewrite their response to pandemics, & it's going to look an awful lot like the tactics used here.

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Don't measure a swift, hard response by what you saw in Columbia. That most certainly is not what's being done here--nor in New Zealand or Australia for that matter. Australia will succumb if they don't get their act together soon, & then the maximum prediction of deaths will come to pass unless their vaccination drive can save them.

Vietnam is in the midst of an outbreak now, too, so watch carefully to see if they can contain it.

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