So far my favourite thing about emacs is that the “GNU and Freedom” help entry is followed immediately by the all caps notice disclaiming any warranty or responsibility for the software at all.

The “GNU and freedom” link doesn’t work. The disclaimer link sure does though.

I am presently not understanding the commitment to the idea that a ‘meta’ key is something that has existed in the wild since 1980.

The starting screen of emacs offers me a dedicated pair of keystrokes that will permit me to order paper copies of the emacs manual. C-h RET returns “Info file emacs does not exist”.

Again, I am going to try to push through this, but the first impressions I’m getting here is that emacs is abandonware. Tier-1 menus that don’t work. Documentation that’s totally untested, inconsistent and full of dead links and weirdly dated terminology (“visit new file”?) This software has not cared at all about new users’ first impressions in a really, really long time, if ever.

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@mhoye I admire your patience. I don't think abandonware is the right word. When I first tried Emacs back in 1990-s, it was just as bad as it is now. I tried for a few days (naive young fool that I was), but eventually I gave up and never looked back. It wasn't abandoned, absence of empathy to its users has been the defining quality of its UX design throughout its history.

@angdraug @mhoye

It's not just Emacs

It's the whole GNU project

It's a deeply entrenched cultural problem

@abbienormal @angdraug @mhoye totally agree with this statement. Emacs looks awful at first glance, but yet it provides a great base for extending for your concrete use cases. Emacs is the best in providing user freedom.

@jplebreton @abbienormal @angdraug @mhoye from restrictions made by devs. Basic example is it is free software, so you can mess with your code however you want, but its not only about code availability. Compared to vim Emacs has greater ways to extend itself, its not "limited" to vimscript and what devs let you "script", almost everything is changeable.

@w96k @jplebreton @abbienormal @angdraug “let me do whatever I want” is the most narrow, selfish kind of freedom imaginable, though, and doesn’t admit the existence of things that turn out to matter a lot. Like “other people” and “society”, to name two.

@abbienormal @angdraug @mhoye

Definite 80s-high-school-computer-club vibe to it. I also used to say things like "if it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand." But then I reached my mid-twenties.

@suetanvil @abbienormal @angdraug it’s an accessibility problem. There is a fundamental difference between “this is difficult because what we are trying to do here is inherently difficult” and “this is difficult because we have not put the effort in to making it easy.”

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