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Just a reminder that Twitter perceives the Fediverse as a threat, and their project Blue Sky is actively spreading FUD about ActivityPub on their website. blueskyweb.xyz/blog/3-6-2022-a

Since this blog post was released, I've seen blue checks repeat these talking points.

I've seen them write, "The Fediverse could disappear tomorrow!"—as if one site has more persistence than thousands.

Or that if one instance crashes, the whole Fediverse follows.

It's all FUD, of course—a way to keep people on Twitter.

@atomicpoet don't forget the "Admins can read your DMs one!" like Twitter can't read your DMs...

Really hope we get super private DMs from Mastodon eventually though.

@Dianora @konomikitten @atomicpoet yup, though if we get that on Twitter before we get it on the Fediverse, I'll be genuinely surprised.

And this is despite the difference in number of devs working on it, or even Musk's alleged "free speech absolutism".

@brocolie @konomikitten @atomicpoet
Yep. End to end is the way to go. I was never impressed with SSL IRC.

@atomicpoet The point about losing a profile when changing servers is valid, but:

- The problem has in fact been solved already in a different Fediverse project ( https://zotlabs.org/page/zot/specs+zot6+home ), but the implementations for various reason have seen less adoption than ActivityPub/LitePub implementations

- The other example they cite (email) for the same problem already points out the reason why people generally don't have much of an issue dealing with this problem: They are used to it.

@atomicpoet
"And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. And that is what is going to happen to..."
-- Nicholas Klein, 1914

@atomicpoet The stupid article says "If your ActivityPub server shuts down, you lose..."

How about "If Twitter shuts you down, you lose... this scenario is not unlikely and has happened before"?

@niclas @atomicpoet Twitter could decide to suspend an account for any reason and you're basically SOL to even get an archive or a list of followers! With very little recourse to anyone who isn't being paid to make complaints to away as fast as possible.

@reneestephen
Yes, that was my whole point...

I like passive/questioned statements, since it seems more effective arguing with those that disagree. There will be an attempt to answer that, then continue to question that answer until they either realize their absurd position or calls me a nazi/fascist/racist/whatever.

Maybe you should try it out? 😉

@atomicpoet

@atomicpoet they've been blabbing about BlueSky for 2.5 years with nothing to show for it. Plus, what they are ostensibly trying to do (decentralized protocol) is directly opposed to their business model (centralized walled garden).

BlueSky is a FUD project, entirely.

@rysiek That thing has a big ton of resources and nothing to show for it. It's vaporware pure and simple.

Meanwhile, look at what @Gargron and @dansup have been able to do with their projects.

@atomicpoet as much as I appreciate (I honestly do!) the huge impact @Gargron and @dansup had, there were thousands of developers and designers that joined and helped, and then thousands of instance admins and moderators and deeply involved fedizens that helped make fedi into the bustling and fabulous phenomenon that it is.

I don't wan to minimize Gargron's or dansup's contributions here, but it's important to recognize all the others too.

@atomicpoet but! It's fun to quote Jack Dorsey on how moderation at global :birdsite: scale is impossible, and how a decentralized protocol is the correct solution.

Can't wait for Jack to join fedi.

@atomicpoet when the rubber hits the road, fedi userbase is orders of magnitude larger than BlueSky's. And that's assuming there are *any* BlueSky users at all.

So yeah, they should totally go ahead and pontificate on running a decentralized social network at scale. 🙄

@rysiek @atomicpoet Mastodon and other decentralized media figured this out long ago. Instances take care of their own moderation philosophy, and shut out instances that are obnoxious about their differences.

@rysiek @atomicpoet I don’t know the free speech history of the fediverse, but the first thing that popped into my head was starting a totally free speech instance where everyone has to use their real identities. I really want to see what would happen if racists and everyone else are given a non-anonymous free speech platform.

@TunnelJanitor as far as "free speech history of the fedi", you might be interested in this:
conf.tube/videos/watch/d8c8ed6

It's on a @peertube instance, by the way, so you can interact with this video — boost and favourite it — directly from your fedi account, by putting the link in the search box.

@rysiek @atomicpoet I don't even know how BlueSky could make money for Twitter without either partnering with certain BlueSky instances or (more likely) some cockamamie application of blockchain.

@atomicpoet That kind of crap is a total pantload anyway. I've run a forum website for 17 years that has 5,000+ users and millions of posts, and do you know how much data loss we've had, ever? ZERO.

@atomicpoet The first criticism is somewhat valid: account migration still means losing your previous posts

@Mek101 Yeah, too bad I can't migrate my Twitter account to a competing service either.

@atomicpoet True. Not sure if or how BlueSky could solve this

@atomicpoet "Operating at scale requires engineering for scale" is an interesting way to say that having a monolithic server is necessary to maintain communication platforms, when that line of thinking was proven wrong long before the advent of modern social media.

I wonder how myopic they must think users are to buy into this.

@AnarchyStacks @atomicpoet

Yes, this is the biggest error here. The whole point of Fediverse is that it scales MUCH better than one big silo ever will.

@atomicpoet “Moving to a different social platform while keeping your social graph is very important to an open system. Something you cannot do if you’re on Twitter, but you can do if you’re on mastodon. Here’s some misinformation about how fragile your social graph is on Mastodon, with no mention of the ability to easily transfer to other instances.”

I know they’re talking more about ActivityPub than mastodon specifically, but if you’re a mastodon user this problem is solved.

@maddiefuzz Well, having the ability to import your exported data to a new instance would be nice, but it's still better in that it can be done at all (Nitter notwithstanding).

@atomicpoet I don't understand the: don't use the fediverse because it's not perfect people. Twitter is far from perfect, and still hasn't figured out all the issues that come from scaling. Just because we don't see the , it doesn't mean there aren't issues with their operations at scale.

@webhat @atomicpoet
One of my lot stormed off back to Twitter outraged that there's no quote-toot function.

🤷

Guess some people care about the control and ownership of the world's communication networks and others care about how easily a link can be embedded.

@pre @atomicpoet the silly thing is that quote tweeting works in some clients, if they think it's important they should use those clients 🤦

boing.world/@pre/1082058774512

@webhat @atomicpoet
@arin_basu

Yeah, I think in the end people just don't like change of any kind so they come in looking for any reasons they can find to leave again, then they don't have to learn or change anything but can say they tried.

@atomicpoet@mastodon.social they probably don't want to admit that federated platforms carry more growth potential than Twitter in its current state, especially now that madman Musk just bought it

@atomicpoet I heard that Blue Sky is divesting itself from Twitter now

@vv I mean a lot has changed during the past month 😂

@atomicpoet there's a LOT of real problems with ActivityPub they could've chosen and yet they go for one that was addressed already and another that ignores the point of decentralization.

@atomicpoet
I saw a post recently saying that twitter was blocking people from posting urls to fedi instances claiming that they were 'potentially dangerous'.
if Musk, when he takes over is actually in favour of 'free speech' then he will implement decentralisation and fast-track open protocols and algorithms(he has said he would publish the algorithms).
Of course if ruthlessly followed these steps will lead to the market value of twitter falling massively so the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

@atomicpoet both observations are correct, don't you think?

Question is how much ppl care, I know quite a fee object to crawling mastodon, and don't like search functionality, so they'd not agree that this risk is a problem.

@arjen But not really. Decentralization means possible redundancies. I might not be able to port my exact account to another instance, but if one instance goes down there's still others.

@atomicpoet true but it's not a default operation to recover those under a new account in a new server, is it?

@arjen Right now, with many federated platforms, you can download your follows, blocks, mutes, etc., then export it to another account.

You can also set up an account on another instance for redundant storage of data.

But also: why do we even want to tie identity to any specific social network or instance?

@atomicpoet Hmm. And here I thought that #Bluesky was supposed to be totally independent from Twitter… guess not so much.

I'd be more worried if #Twitter had ever shown any ability to launch new products or services. (As it is, they managed to take Vine, which was fine, and destroy it.)

Whatever. They have their research project, we have rough consensus and running code.

@atomicpoet not sure I see the fud. the statement they make about when an AP server shuts down is not untrue?

@falgn0n No, you don't lose your identity and relationships tied to your instance because the Fediverse is decentralized. In fact, you can decentralize your identity, make it be independent of any instance. See also: keyoxide.org

@atomicpoet remember when .club went down, and the rest of us were fine?
what does twitter think happens if .com goes down?
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