Hmm, just had an #urbanism thought.
A lot of urbanists focus on the harm that cars cause inside of cities - tailpipe pollution, space utilization, and safety.
An #EV eliminates tailpipe pollution, but it doesn't solve the other problems at all. Self-driving cars may improve the safety situation, but then there's bullshit like trying to require that every #bicycle carry a beacon telling self-driving cars that they exist, which makes that claim dubious, and they take just as much space.
@bhtooefr How would this handle transportation of stuff or groups of friends who need more flexibility than public transit?
I'm fine with scooters, but it seems like this just adds another vehicle type on the road that we have to figure out how to integrate into our transit system?
@paladin1 I don't think you need scooter-specific infrastructure - the ~125 cc class of scooter (although I'd advocate for electric over ICE, but many electrics aim for that class) is fast enough to use car infrastructure except for freeways, and lane splitting policies (the norm everywhere in the world except for the US) can give them the ability to get through traffic quickly.
As far as transporting people and goods, well, I'll point to India's example. Not the safest, but...
@bhtooefr I suppose so. The use case I was thinking about is if I and my three adult friends wanted to go to some private beach. There's no reason to expect a rail or bus stop, and we can't all cram onto one scooter like an Indian family, and taking multiple scooters doesn't allow for being social. So you're left with a car.
Scooters don't need their own roads, true. But if we have self-driving cars, now they have to accommodate both bikes AND scooters. More hassle?
@paladin1 They have to accommodate them anyway, as they're already on the roads - maybe in lower numbers in the US than they would be in some European cities, and there lower than they would be in parts of Asia, but still.
@bhtooefr
> if they're electric, pollution is a non-issue
Depends how energy is generated. In Chile we are still using coal among other sources.
Also, there is no economic incentives for politicians to promote bikes since bike owners do not have to pay taxes, tolls and similar stuff.
@racuna There's a few counter-arguments, though, there.
A 100% coal-powered EV's emissions happen outside of the city, improving air quality relative to burning gasoline inside the city.
It can still compete with a gasoline ICE on CO2 emissions.
It will get cleaner as coal is removed from the grid and renewables added. A gasoline ICE will not get cleaner.
As far as bicycle infra... if the economy can run more efficiently with bicycles, there's more income taxation to go around.
@racuna After all, bicycle owners still pay sales taxes, they still pay income taxes, their rent has property taxes embedded in it, they still buy goods which causes workers to get paid wages which generate further income taxes, etc., etc.
Of course, in the US, there are attempts to tax cyclists, but these tend to be anti-cyclist actions designed to force people into cars.
@bhtooefr sure, but here (Chile) car owners have to pay taxes for almost everything: fuel (additional to regular taxes), anual car plate permission, annual obligatory insurance, tag (automatic tolls everywhere), etc. So they think they have the rights to be the "owners of the road/streets" and we, the bike owners are just like invaders to them.
"oh look, another cicle road!!! they are stealing our space!!!"
(sorry if my english is shitty, is not my native lang)
@racuna Yeah, that's absolutely a problem in the US, too.
The best that cyclists have come up with is basically an argument that bicycles use less of the road (both in space and in wear), and that cyclists pay taxes into the general fund, which is the majority of road funding in the US.
@bhtooefr funny thing: a former mayor of the city (Santiago, Chile) in the elections where she won, she went to vote by bike as a public act (she did not even know how to wear her helmet properly). During his government he rebuilt a couple of streets he "forgot" to take advantage of the moment to include bicycle lanes.
Ultimately, policy that favors mass transit, cycling (both 100% human-powered and electric-assisted), and walking will lead to the most livable cities.
However.
There's simply going to be people who want to go faster than a bicycle, but want more flexibility than mass transit allows.
I wonder if encouraging #scooters in place of cars might be an answer - if they're electric, pollution is a non-issue, they take about the same space as a bicycle, and far less kinetic energy than a car.