@brainblasted FSE ? What is that ?
@catonano freespeechextremists
@cwebber @brainblasted @catonano
> The muddying of the waters is also dangerous because free speech is one of the few defenses against fascism we have.
i share this feeling. i'm really worried both about both the co-option of rhetoric about free speech by the far right and the growing consensus on the left that the _actual valuing of freedom of expression_ is the natural attitude of nazis/fascists/etc.
long-term, this isn't going anywhere we're going to like.
@bob @brennen @catonano @cwebber @brainblasted In non US countries it was/is just the opposite. Censorship and limiting speech was used to support Socialism and Communism. So this isn't really a uniquely right or left issue. When ever you use force to shut down ideas or dialog, you are unable to limit it to only the ideas you support. The best way to battle is to have an open dialog. When everyone is allowed to talk and listen, that is how you really shine a light on bad ideas.
@yisraeldov @bob @brennen @cwebber @brainblasted
That might be the reason why some people from former soviet block countries fall for the rethoric of nanny state and minimal government
Because they identify the government with Soviet governments
So they fall for the rethoric by rhe fsb, nonethess
@catonano
I don't know what those initials mean. But either way you cut it, censorship of ideas , by government or by individuals is a tool used by fascists. It is controlling people by force.
@bob @brennen @cwebber @brainblasted
@yisraeldov @bob @brennen @cwebber @brainblasted
The fsb is the current Russian foreign secret service
It inherited its mission from the kgb
They are igniting this "freeze peach" rethoric as a tool to do exactly what you described
Censoring minorities, sometimes violently
Some people from eastern countries fall for that rethoric because they identify Western governments with eastern ones
@yisraeldov @bob @brennen @cwebber @brainblasted
So they fall for the trap of the same oppression that they fear
Tragically
@yisraeldov @bob @brennen @cwebber @brainblasted
At least that's an impression I had
@yisraeldov @bob @brennen @cwebber @brainblasted
And it might be too late
@catonano I didn't RTFA, but I think I made it clear that I don't know where I stand on if big tech companies should be able to censor, It comes down to the question if they are utilities, or publishers.
pol / speech / etc.
@yisraeldov i think we're generally best off with the ability of the state to suppress ideas in law / by force very constrained, as under the US first amendment.
that said, i'm perfectly happy to shut down certain classes of expression on the platforms i use and support, and have no real interest in dialog with bad actors whose ultimate goals are oppression & violence. i'm not the state, and i'm not obligated to listen to (or rebroadcast) everything.
pol / speech / etc.
@yisraeldov i do recognize that the division between state and private actors / platforms isn't always as clear as all that (especially in the era of megacorp social media platforms and such), and also that people of good will can feel somewhat differently about this.
this is probably a good place for me to bow out of the thread.
pol / speech / etc.
Ah is this what "many things become governments" mean ?
pol / speech / etc.
@brennen
How does the first amendment allow for oppressing ideas? You maybe right, I just don't know.
You are right, on your own platform, you can be exposed to what ever ideas you want. I often block people or instances. That being said, we aren't going to make society better that way. We just create echo chambers for bad ideas.
pol / speech / etc.
> That being said, we aren't going to make society better that way. We just create echo chambers for bad ideas.
we disagree on this point. i also have some concern about creating highly polarized silos, but banning assholes from one's platform seems to be a baseline requirement of having a platform that anyone can reasonably use.
maybe social media is, as someone recently observed, just not a long-term viable idea.
at any rate: i'm out.
pol / speech / etc.
@brennen
But that means you are discriminating against people like me. I am an asshole.
pol / speech / etc.
@yisraeldov in that case, i will block you now and save myself future effort. :)
pol / speech / etc.
@brennen
Probably a good idea, since you said you were bowing out, but here you are conversing with someone you think should be banned
@cwebber @brainblasted @catonano
(and because we're in the historical moment we're in, i guess i need to immediately append the disclaimer that i favor strong, active moderation of public social networks and have no interest in supporting / engaging with platforms that aren't willing to do that work.)