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Sure sounds like the market has decided that Parler doesn’t deserve to survive. Capitalism, amirite?

· · Mastodon Twitter Crossposter · 24 · 23 · 71
@cassidyjames
The most disturbing thing is that aws stopped their account.
First time i hear they aren't "neutral".

@evilrob @lord @cassidyjames technically speaking, the site does not need to go down when AWS removes them if they prepared their backup infrastructure accordingly. But it's definitely dead now.

@cassidyjames A little premature, don't you think? Gab went through the same thing and is bigger than it's ever been, and is quite a large node, compared to others around ther fediverse.

But some only like capitalism and science and other concepts only while it suits their agenda, sooo... ?

@VidiviciVeni @cassidyjames Gab stopped federating long ago. It's its own silo again. It shows that they never really cared about the ideals of the fediverse, just hijacking Mastodon's apps.

@masterofthetiger @cassidyjames

Did they defederate or did something happen where they were de-federated from everyone? I'm reading different things, but am new to this platform, so am not so sure how it all works.

If what you say is true, then that's pretty lame.

@VidiviciVeni @masterofthetiger @cassidyjames I was curious to see if it's possible to remote-follow anyone on Gab. It would appear that it's not. I searched for a few accounts on Gab from my instance and nothing was returned. There's also no remote follow button when I navigate to someone's profile on Gab. I'm really left to wonder if Gab is actually running a forked version of Mastodon.

@evilrob @VidiviciVeni @masterofthetiger @cassidyjames perhaps they somehow created their own universe with unique tokens that don't work with rest of Mastodon

@realdanny @evilrob @VidiviciVeni @cassidyjames They talked about doing that, but I am pretty sure they just cut themselves off completely.

@masterofthetiger

@realdanny @evilrob @cassidyjames

Yes, from what I understand they basically forked Mastodon? And I heard they're charging for features that typically come free with any Mastodon account, etc?

@masterofthetiger @realdanny @evilrob @cassidyjames

One of my biggest issues with this is them locking themselves behind an echo chamber. One of the things that attracted me to Mastodon vs the likes of Parler, etc, is that I despise echo chambers -- they're no good for anyone.

@VidiviciVeni @masterofthetiger @realdanny @cassidyjames "Echo chambers" get a bad rap. There's actually nothing wrong with echo chambers in and of themselves. All an echo chamber really is is a place where everyone seems to agree on the same principles. They're just places where like-minded individuals share common ideas. Nothing wrong with that as long as you realize when you're inside an echo chamber.

@evilrob

@masterofthetiger @realdanny @cassidyjames

I think that's an ideal view of what echo chambers "just are", but in practice, what they "really are" is something that tends toward intellectually and psychologically negative effects.

Groupthink is a very serious problem.

@VidiviciVeni @masterofthetiger @realdanny @cassidyjames

You aren't safe from groupthink and it's effects on Mastodon. Each Mastodon instance is itself an echo chamber on a much smaller scale compared to mainstream social networks.

@evilrob
@masterofthetiger @realdanny @cassidyjames

I didn't say nor imply one is, can be 100% safe from echo chambers. It's not a binary issue, it's a continual one -- point is to minimize one's exposure to them.

Even tho I could've joined one of the nodes on Mastodon that mostly agrees w my values, I prefer to avoid such places. We can follow eachother without having my feed filled w a circle-jerk of agreement & low growth. It's why I chose Mastodon Social, which is larger & more diverse.

@evilrob @masterofthetiger @realdanny @cassidyjames

(to clarify, Groupthink is worst in echo chambers, and one "should" minimize their exposure to these places to minimize one's exposure to Groupthink, and even still, outside of these places, still have the sense of reflection to see it taking hold in others and oneself)

@VidiviciVeni @cassidyjames Good Lord - "Capitalism" is when the free market or consumers say no. This is a draconian shutdown on a competitive service with a large following; people get what they REALLY did. Love or hate the service - this is pure crap on 's part. What they can do to Parlor, they can do to any of us. Oh, and if you think Parlor is nasty, wait till you go on Twitter and Facebook.

@VidiviciVeni @cassidyjames Some people say these oligopolies would never have gotten this big without state support (think Dutch and British East India Companies).

Even if this isn't true in this case, capitalism—hell, even capitalism with a good, strong safety net—is still vastly superior in resource allocation to communism.

@cassidyjames

If a dozen independent organizations you've hand-picked to do business with all dump you on the same day, you have to have a very specific brand of high-strength delusion to double down and say "no, it's _them_ who approached this wrong".

From the limited bit I've read, this was not a centralized takedown, it was pure democracy.

That gives me a twinge of joy, I must admit.

@polyphonic @cassidyjames
So, you think all of these independent orgs spontaneously dumped Parler at the same time, on their own, at the same time as Google and Amazon? Don't don't think it's possible that they were worried about Amazon and Google cutting of folks that chose to do business with Parler?

@Vetforpeace1

@cassidyjames

If you have evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it.

It wouldn't be entirely surprising that it happened. It _would_ be entirely surprising that nobody said so.

Until I have even a shred of evidence or even testimonials, that thought is filed under "unsubstantiated conspiracy theory" for me.

@polyphonic @cassidyjames

That is, of course, your prerogative, but typically a large number of people cutting of a revenue stream is not unprompted. Notice, I'm not saying it was coordinated, but done out of a fear that they would be cut off, too. Parler didn't change, so why drop them now?

@Vetforpeace1 @polyphonic because there was a violent insurrection against the federal government, incited largely by Parler—who defended their lack of moderation. Actions—and inaction in the face of violence—have consequences.

@cassidyjames @polyphonic
We should silence a large group of people... because some of them committed crimes. Could this possibly have negative repercussions in the future?

@Vetforpeace1 @polyphonic If a company harbors literal terrorists, and then defends doing so, I am fine with other companies deciding to cease to do business with that company. That's what this is. Nobody is being “silenced,” it was a new startup social network that didn't moderate incitements to violence. People can use many, many other platforms to communicate.

@cassidyjames while i do believe that parler is a blight upon the world with its mere existence, being unilaterally targeted for deplatforming on all fronts spells out horrifying implications for mastodon and pleroma.

it doesn't matter if parler is a horrible platform altogether; centralising that much power in silicon valley is fucking terrifying. who's to stop silicon valley from targeting mastodon next over instances like switter?

catharsis shouldn't blind us from what's happening before us

@theafterdinnerpayback @cassidyjames Then you should be happy they acted this way. There is no way other countries that are watching this right now will accept these companies having this much power in their nation. Big tech has had free reign to act the way they have wanted over the last decade, I think their days are coming to an end.

Nothing is likely happen is America because they own so many politicians but the rest of the world will not accept.

@Graylik @cassidyjames

I can't tell if I'm too cynical or if you're too optimistic. I think we'll need to agree to disagree on the idea of being "happy" this is happening.

Also, other countries in the world have bowed down to or implemented similar mass-surveillance measures that the USA does. There's a reason why the 5/9/14 eyes exist.

They've already folded on the government front, so why should the private sector behave any differently if the American models of business are more lucrative?

@theafterdinnerpayback @cassidyjames After what happened at the capital, you bet there will be a whole lot more surveillance coming to America from the government but when it comes to the big tech companies, I at-least hope the rest of the world will be like, no we don't want that. I may be being optimistic, I don't know. We will wait and see.

If I lived in the US I would be cynical too.

@Graylik @cassidyjames

The big reason why I'm cynical about this having any long-term positive impact is that the current big tech offerings are far too ubiquitous, convenient, and addictive.

My family in India doesn't care that apps like WhatsApp, TikTok, or whatever mine their data to sell onto political and private interests. Go back 5 years and they didn't have internet access.

Same can be said in places like China where WeChat is used for everything from messaging to paying for stuff.

@theafterdinnerpayback @cassidyjames I saw a post from @Naval on twitter saying it is very hard to dislodge a tech company once they have an established base and it may be true that these companies can't be overcome.

We will just have to wait and see.

@betepolitique @theafterdinnerpayback @cassidyjames Think for America the politicians won't ever do anything about big tech but if people start moving to the Fediverse those old companies would just die. Mastodon is so much better then twitter, twitter looks like its just designed for people to get angry. Facebook and Youtube too, I find their trending sections and other things they push on you really stressful. The Fediverse feels so much happier.

@Graylik @betepolitique @cassidyjames Not to mention that the level of discourse is much more manageable, even for opposing viewpoints. I've barely been on the Fediverse for a week and I've had amazing conversations that would've otherwise been ad hominem attacks on Twitter/Facebook.

I do think long-term monetisation is a problem that'll keep the Fediverse from widespread adoption, but all the best things come in life to those who wait, I suppose.

@theafterdinnerpayback @betepolitique @cassidyjames I actually think monetization is a none issue, Hosting does not really cost that much, I would actually be happy to spinup an instance for just my friends and family that I just pay for. Remember how Facebook created their mobile app to act like a slot machine so people would get addicted to reloading it, That was extremely unethical so I think if people just pay for small instances with money from a job, the fediverse will be such a nicer place.

@theafterdinnerpayback @cassidyjames The flip side of such concerns is equally frightening: Who’s to say a hosting provider must be forced to carry Parler, a Masto instance, or any other service/website?

The power held by a handful of companies in Silicon Valley is frightening. That much is true. But the idea of the law forcing any (or all) of those companies to host speech is equally frightening.

@theafterdinnerpayback except Mastodon instances have already been through this song and dance, and that's why Mastodon.Social and several other large instances actively deplatform literal Nazis and hate speech.

The problem is that Parler invited and amplified it.

@theafterdinnerpayback @cassidyjames going to be honest, I tried Parler and I didn't get it. I can't speak for any incitement of violence...but I will say like all of it was people selling stupid MAGA merch to boomers. Wasn't for me.

@BasedCoomer @cassidyjames Right-wing alternatives to social media are no better than Facebook/Twitter. You gain the ability to shittalk minorities and spread fake news, but you lose the ability to point out hypocrisy.

Also of particular note: Gab and Parler's privacy policies are fucking awful. Gab reserves the right to datamine you in worse ways than Facebook/Twitter can and Parler had all those leaks.

Mozilla wants to harp about decentralised hate networks, but I see the exact opposite.

@cassidyjames yep, I think most centralized social media platforms don't deserve to survive.

@cassidyjames ‘the market’ is not the same as ‘a select elite bunch of multimillionaire tech bros’

@cassidyjames well, it might well be. But ‘The Market’ is used to deceive the masses and infer an ‘invisible force beyond the control of any group of individuals’ whereas it’s rigged for the capitalist by the ultra rich. Socialism exists: for the rich !!

@cassidyjames Ah yes, because massive corporations in bed with the government deciding to blacklist you and prevent you from doing business due to you having politics the ruling elites disagree with is truely free market capitalism. This was definitely a choice the consumers made by voting with their wallets, for sure. Monopolies crushing their competition and not allowing the consumer to have any choices is the will of the free market!

@galena the companies decided it was in their best interests to not provide services to a platform that amplifies literal nazis.

@cassidyjames @galena yeah but also private sector and state moving together to censor speech is also textbook fascism.
And also, anyone that is an actual racist that supports Trump is also a fascist.

Right now you are watching a battle between two sides of complete fascists. Fascists fighting over narrative.

@galena @cassidyjames Indeed. Big tech is crying out for more regulation so they can maintain power. Regulatory capture happens eventually in every industry.

@cassidyjames Like cockroaches exposed to sunlight, they'll just acurry away and breed in a new dark corner. Hopefully they get themselves solved as hard as possible by trying to attack the wrong armed government force.

@cassidyjames Right, I don't put too much stock in corporations actually caring about social issues *except* when that also happens to affect their brand. Parler was always a cesspool, but it's only once it became bad for business that companies distanced themselves from it. It just happens that it became bad for business very quick.

@cassidyjames MARKET lol, it was blooming platform. Its pure political repression.

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