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uspol, disinfo 

There are Russian campaigns trying to get left wing voters to sit out the US election theguardian.com/technology/202

It is possible to both think that electoralism won't solve all our problems and that voting is a form of damage control. Don't be manipulated by fascists. Request a ballot. Cast a vote.

vote.org/

uspol, disinfo 

Like, for real, there are a lot of reasons for a leftist to be unhappy with the democratic nominee, but there are even more reasons to get Trump the fuck out.

People live and die in the gaps between the candidates. This seems especially clear now. Stand in solidarity with vulnerable Americans and cast a ballot to get the fascist out. A weak-ass liberal is so much less shit than an open fascist.

www.vote.org

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uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh
Yes, definitely. But nobody should expect DEMs do any better than just not being plain fascists.
Watch @TonyStark you'll see what I mean.

uspol, disinfo 

@wauz @TonyStark

I mean, I think we should expect better and I think that's achievable. The two parties are huge coalitions that include a lot of discrete political wings. Right now, the democrats have a lot of conservatives because there's no where else for them to go, so dems feel safe pursuing conservative policy.

As momentum builds around actually left movements, the centre will shift and the politicians will follow. Everyone will move left. They have to.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh

Dear Wauz.

Get the fuck off my instance.

@Gargron

Why the fuck am I still seeing this account?

@wauz@mastodon.social

uspol, disinfo 

@TonyStark

If you click on the ellipsis on the bottom right of a post, you'll find several options including "report" (which is probably more effective at getting a mod's attention than @-ing the lead developer is). You can check a box to report to to the mod of the poster's instance. That ellipsis also has "block". It's possible to block an entire domain if you so desire, but I'm afraid I don't know how to do that off the top of my head.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh

We have instance blocked this account. The fact that it keeps replying to us is harrassment.

It's been reported SEVERAL times. I don't wish to block mastodon.social, but...

@Gargron

uspol, disinfo 

@TonyStark

If you have blocked the account, you should not see the replies. It sounds like you may be experiencing a technical problem with your server configuration.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh

Thank you, but it's something with Mastodon's, not mine.

sever configuration problems with block functionality 

@TonyStark

But if your instance blocks someone, then your instance should be doing filtering. Certainly no sever blocks any user from typing in anyone's username. Indeed, there are good reasons ~not~ to have that functionality.

I wish I knew where to signpost you to go for help with this, but my admin experience was only with an ostatus server, not activitypub.

sever configuration problems with block functionality 

@celesteh

It isn't, though. Nothing is different on my end. No changes have been made. If I'm using the version of Mastodon everyone else is, and have changed nothing on my end.

sever configuration problems with block functionality 

@TonyStark I think you can probably get help for this at github? Something is definitely not working as it should be.

sever configuration problems with block functionality 

@celesteh Thanks. I started a discussion there yesterday and haven't gotten back to it. Thanks for the help.

uspol, disinfo 

@wauz @celesteh

Get off my instance and stop tagging me. Do not mention me. Do not interact with me.

uspol, disinfo 

@TonyStark
You made yourself a public person and, by abusing your administrative powers, you called for criticism.
Who's gonna climb high, needs warm jacket!
You could have chosen a friendly discussion and preferred, not to.
As some of your subjects on your instance mentioned, US presidency affects whole world.
If you don't want this discussion, just defederate you instance and stay in you bubble
@celesteh

uspol, disinfo 

@wauz
Abusing what?

We've instance blocked you several times. What you're doing is stalking and harrassment.

You're entitled to your opinion. You're not entitled to my listening to it.

@celesteh

uspol, disinfo 

@TonyStark @wauz

Says the guy who won't stopping @-ing me

uspol, disinfo 

@TonyStark @wauz

Please don't tag me when you're yelling at each other (and for god's sake, fix your instance if this is such a thing for you.)

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh in the Cambridge Analitica documentary they underlined that demotivating voters of the opposite side is a proven strategy.

uspol, disinfo 

@jacek @celesteh

lol I guess that means when Dems force Greens off state ballots thinking we'll then vote for them, but we won't, that's Russia too. 🙄

uspol, disinfo 

@xenophora @celesteh

Cambridge Analitica was working mostly for domestic clients (i.e. domestic in the country they worked for).

uspol, disinfo 

@jacek @celesteh

I was roping it back into the initial toot.

uspol, disinfo 

@xenophora @jacek

If you read the original Guardian article, it's clear this particular disinformation campaign is a bad-faith effort by *someone* with a lot of money. Perhaps it's American oligarchs and not actually foreign ones, but it's certainly not the Greens.

Centrists want to blame Russia for everything, which is silly and highly annoying, but the government of that country isn't a wholly an innocent bystander either.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh @xenophora

I don't know enough about US politics.

However:

1. I feel Russia influence in Europe (and especially Poland);
2. Trump is a boon to Russia (at the least his incompetence will make US weaker);
3. In Poland I'm did vote for "the lesser evil" President. . . one of the reason was my disbelief that losing another election will make "the lesser evil party" reconsider their strategy (or really anything);

uspol, disinfo 

@jacek @xenophora

Small parties can win local races and make major positive impacts in their communities, but are not able to win any national office right now.

Voting for a third party for national office is a "protest vote". My experiences in the UK have put me off that idea really heavily. "Protest votes" were how Brexit won and how we got such terrible MEPs.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh @xenophora this is a very big disadvantage of US election system. Presidential elections in Poland are somewhat better as we have two rounds (hope round, and lesser evil round). For pairlaiment we have better system (that still penalises small parties, but at lest I have a representative). For the senate we sadly implemented single seat districts recently...

uspol, disinfo, twitter link 

@celesteh @jacek

In the U.S., there are numerous states where Greens can only secure ballot lines for local races by fielding Presidential candidates.

I promote Greens down-ballot wherever I can. Meanwhile, the average Democrat & their leadership responds to our presence with either indifference or outright hostility: more than they ever direct at the GOP.

tinyurl.com/y27nde4h

Does any UK native with a lick of sense wish they had the U.S. system? :/

uspol, ukpol, disinfo, twitter link 

@celesteh @jacek

P.S. - I remember from kibbitzing some UK Green Twitter accts. earlier this year that apparently Labour leadership refuses to push for changes to first-past-the-post, despite the fact that a sizeable number of their own rank-and-file want changes. Labour demands the right to police whatever the outer acceptable limits of Left policy might be in the public sphere. Boy howdy yeah that does have a familiar stench to it. 🙄

uspol, ukpol, disinfo, twitter link 

@xenophora @jacek

Your point about down-ballot races was interesting and a thing I hadn't considered, so thanks for sharing that.

As for "first past the post", we had a referendum to switch to ranked preferences (which is how party members decide their leaders internally) and it failed because people wanted to "protest vote" to hurt the libdems.

Protest voting is the worst fucking thing in this fucked up country.

uspol, ukpol, disinfo, twitter link 

@xenophora @jacek

That said, London did put in ranked preferences in it's vote for mayor and what happened is that people put the Conservative as the first choice and the Labour as their second or vice versa and continued to ignore minor parties.

Some of the chattering classes thought this indicated people were confused about the system, but I think it may actually reflect how the average person understands and engages with electoral politics.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh @jacek @xenophora It's only "protest vote" when the voting system is First Past The Post, which is entirely broken and should be composted. If you have Proportional Representation you can vote for the candidate you actually want and name your fallbacks if they fail. It preserves democracy and opens the possibility of incremental, democratic progress. UK and US sadly do not have this option, yet. PR could fix it.

uspol, disinfo 

@cathal @jacek @xenophora

Ironically, when the UK held a referendum on PR, it failed due to a protest vote against the lib dems. *hollow laugh*

uspol, disinfo 

@cathal @jacek @xenophora

Also, MEPs were elected with PR and not fptp, so people's desire to "protest" by voting for incompetent buffoon parties meant that our representatives in Brussels were largely incompetent and buffoonish.

No voting system will fix the British people - we are turkeys clamouring for Christmas. Giving us more choice manifestly does not mean we make better choices.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh @cathal @jacek

Possibly it's also that people don't change long-standing habits overnight and that it takes time to learn new ones. 🤔

uspol, disinfo 

@xenophora @cathal @jacek MEPs have always been PR, but it may be confusing that its the only contest which uses it.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh

And thanks for all these responses. I'm still reading the earlier ones in between errands. :D

uspol, disinfo 

@cathal @celesteh @jacek

Maine, in the U.S., is choosing a Senator this year via Ranked Choice. First time for any statewide race (though a few cities use it). There were numerous attempts, mostly by the GOP, to scuttle it. This year it's still tied up in court, I think. Maine voters will still have to use traditional means to pick a President because of the challenges.

I live in Oregon, and this year we chose our Green Presidential candidate using Ranked Choice in the primary.

uspol, disinfo 

@jacek @celesteh

Russiagate is wearisome. It amounts to a final takeover of the Democratic Party by Reagan-Era Republicans. Both parties love war, & make money off military spending. Both lash out with hatred and disgust at any U.S. peace movement (or party) they can't buy or own. Both support electoral meddling if it's the U.S. doing in elsewhere. Both gave Trump *more* money for the military budget than he asked for. Trump's "opposition" is no more trustworthy than he is.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh @jacek

But all these articles simply end up being fodder for hawks who are addicted to military money and are longing to start WWIII: not to mention indulging in xenophobia and punching Left. I trust none of them, and I never needed any foreign power to tell me that our system and the people running it are both foul and ought to be thrown out with the trash. :/

The amount of ink that's been spilled over this in the past four years is honestly absurd.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh @mwlucas Voting is not sufficient but it is absolutely essential.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh I feel like Biden was more than reason enough to vote green party this year

uspol, disinfo 

@nimbius

This kind of shitting on people's identities is part of why I quit being Green.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh to elaborate I'm sure he's a swell guy, but his refusal to defund the police and or restore the US embassy to a neutral area of Israel before even securing the nomination left me feeling a little surprised.

uspol, disinfo 

@nimbius

No, Biden's an annoying centrist liberal if who is often wrong and is a great disappointment. He seemed swell under Obama but before that he was often quite grim and unlikeable.

However Trump is actually a fascist and removing him from power is extremely urgent.

In no sense is this (or any) election an answer to our problems. It's just a first step.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh Your profile states you identify as a communist. Honest question: given you political beliefs, how can you take seriously the whole #Russiagate narrative?

uspol, disinfo 

@adz

This is a good example of the "all or nothing" fallacy - something must be entirely true or entirely false.

Part of the reason some liberals have gone so overboard with anti-Russian hysteria is because *parts* of what they're saying is true.

And some leftists have embraced the line put out by openly-a-propaganda-channel RT because large parts of Russiagate is obviously false.

uspol, disinfo 

@adz

I live in the UK and my spouse is a journalist who has worked in Russia and who has a friend at RT. So I'm not completely clear on the US liberal thing about Russia because it's silly and far away.

My spouse's friend compared working at RT to marketing cigarettes (which is why this person is no longer my friend, but anyway).

There are some well-documented truths amidst all the noise.

uspol, disinfo 

@adz

1. Russia does spy on their hotel rooms (and phone calls and skype calls). Trump certainly was taped in a hotel room.

But: This doesn't mean there's a pee tape or whatever.

2. There are foreign troll farms making fake news and social media posts for influence and profit. There are also troll farms based in the UK (Cambridge Analytica) and presumably in the US. Not to mention organic trolling in the form of gamergate, etc. A lot of MAGA tweeters are bots.

uspol, disinfo 

@adz

I've got a bot out in the magasphere and most of the traffic on that hashtag seems fake. One of the most prominent bots on it "USA freedom army" was claimed to be Russian by an a US university.

3. US Voting machines are a security disaster. It's extremely plausible that people and groups have tried and succeeded to change results. We should switch to pen and paper voting as in the UK.

The big, imperial governments all do this to each other.

uspol, disinfo 

@adz

Russia also does internal destabilisation efforts to undermine democratic movements within the country. They're very open about it, because it makes people paranoid about each other and causes weird reactions, as it has with American liberals.

They're also extremely unsubtle with poisoning people, etc, because it's got a teeny fig leaf of deniability, but is a warning to their domestic enemies.

Fascists, like Trump and Putin, need social instability. So they create it.

uspol, disinfo 

@adz

Anyway, sorry for the long thread. Also: this is my bot if you want to fork it: github.com/celesteh/invandring

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh Even if there is a pee tape (let's take worst case scenario), Trump has connections to Epstein going back to the 80s and credible rape allegations against him by a 13 year old (at the time) girl. If neither he now his supporters care that he is a *LITERAL PAEDOPHILE*, what would any kind of blackmail do that wouldn't just get laughed off?

uspol, disinfo 

@adz

I am sometimes unclear in my writing, so perhaps I didn't state this in an understandable way: I doubt a "pee tape" exists and I agree nobody would care.

Large parts of the liberal russiagate conspiracy theory are obviously ridiculous.

This is why I mentioned the logical fallacy. Many things liberals assert are wrong, but they formed these fantasies based on several true elements.

uspol, disinfo 

@celesteh All of Russiagate is nonsense. To think 100k had any effect on anything is mindboggling.

Israel, KSA and Turkey all had bigger effects on the election than Russia.

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