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My programming language is better than yours 

Realizing I prefer javascript (despite it being slow!) because it carries a "promethean fire" esthetic. It's designed to make it really easy for a beginner and then lack of a rich standard library encourages a "everybody build a piece" attitude.

This is a deep philosophical question: If we're improving every day, then Prometheus is a hero (but so is the snake), if we're degenerating (Plato, Bannon) then Promethius is a Sorcerers' Apprentice.

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My programming language is better than yours 

@cjd Unfortunately, people keep building the same pieces over and over. And they build tiny pieces, stick them into NPM, then use a weak password, get phished, sell their account, or get angry and delete their package, breaking everything else.

To say nothing of the joy of dependencies that suddenly develop conflicting dependencies.

My programming language is better than yours 

@freakazoid
I get it, I personally really like libraries written in C because I know the programmer passed a minimum bar of entry... But without JavaScript the majority of js developers would not suddenly become excellent Haskell programmers, they would probably not be developers at all. So from the perspective of the whole industry (or society at large) I think more developers are better, even if they're worse 😉

My programming language is better than yours 

@cjd C is not really a bar of entry, incidentally. It's a motorcycle. Being able to stay upright doesn't mean you're not gonna crash the first time you get surprised by a car going the other way on a blind corner due to target fixation. Likewise being able to make a working C program doesn't mean it's not full of buffer overruns, double frees, etc.

My programming language is better than yours 

@cjd seems better to me to have a little software that does what we need, than to have a lot of software that does not do what we need.

Having more software, it doesn't hurt, but people put effort in it, so possibly it does?

It can fail to help because:
* it's just bad
* things are split across different languages/methodologies
* (bloated)dependencies
* doesn't quite do what is needed
* people don't know about it
* it's not communicated wel

My programming language is better than yours 

@cjd lots of different needs too

suppose if someone wants to learn programming, nothing should stop them. Every computer can&should have a simple way to get started..

And i kindah think ideally any type endeavor should be in a way accessible for contribution, if a kid is smart enough and wants to do it.

People able to program don't drop from the sky either, and many a project will exist principally as someone learning. Or just as art/entertainment..

language design, re: My programming language is better than yours 

@cjd Lua has the same thing and is more thoughtfully designed. 😛

Anyways, the language and the standard library are IMHO not the same thing.

And JS doesn't have a lot of competitive implementations and the language itself was forced onto people by web standards. That goes pretty directly against what you like about the small stdlib.
And I don't think running into 10 runtime errors every minute is a good beginner experience.

language design, re: My programming language is better than yours 

@grainloom @cjd On the "runtime errors" thing - it may actually be better than compile-time errors for beginners, in a way.

The problem is that you need to balance feedback on what someone is doing (wrong), with giving the developer some satisfaction that they've built a thing.

People can get demotivated really easily by hours of compiler errors with nothing to show for it, and having something that kinda works but is still broken at runtime can mitigate that.

At the same time, if there's no clear feedback on what's being done wrong, they can feel like they're constantly building on quicksand and nothing ever works.

I'm suspecting that the ideal middle road here might be runtime errors with better 'domain isolation' + better introspectability and tooling than currently available for JS.

language design, re: My programming language is better than yours 

@joepie91 @cjd Well, in #Haskell you can use delayed errors and stuff, and GHCi is pretty good for testing short snippets.
And then there is The Future in which Idris becomes a viable language.
Type errors usually give a Lot more info on what's being done wrong than runtime errors. Try tracking down a nil error in #Lua for instance. Especially in code that makes heavy use of mutability.

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