So one of the really creepy things about the whole FB business is that even if you yourself were careful to not use any silly apps on it that suck your data or log into any websites using your FB account, that doesn’t mean your “friends” didn’t give your data away by giving permissions to read data on THEIR friends. Gah
Deleted account awhile ago but fear that made little difference bc they already had lots of my data and probably still do even after deletion.
Makes me feel yucky.
aye. it seems we assumed the internet would help make the world more democratic, but structures like Facebook bend our world elsewhere
@handleslikeabistro Yes, and sadly there are many such structures.
@clhendricksbc Exactly why I refuse to be on FB, despite all the teasing and pressure I have to face.
Lucky me, trying to push me to do something I don’t want has never made me do it. On the contrary, I am even more reluctant, it is like an hardwired reflex of mine.
@duck57 @clhendricksbc Luckily, I barely have any friend, and the rare among them who are on FB have really not much to share about me. Same with family. The main exception I can think of is my sport-related activities, but I consider those not really private. So that very probable shadow account is probably not so significant.Then again, maybe I am mistaking. I would like to see it!
@arcans Yes, lucky you that you never joined! My worry is that this sort of stuff happens in many other ways through other tools we may not be aware of.
@clhendricksbc Well I have always been a little bit paranoid about subscribing to basically anything, but especially social network, so I don’t have hundreds of accounts (used or not) lying around the web.
@clhendricksbc @luka although if you are a EU citizen, in May when the GDPR gets in effect you can send a deletion request to facebook. Even if fb don't care and illegally keeps coldstorage copies of your data in waiting for more corporate powers, sending such letter is a statement i for one intend to make.
@sakrecoer @email@example.com This is a time I wish I were an EU citizen! No such possibility here in Canada.
@sakrecoer @firstname.lastname@example.org Ah, I see! By the letters in my display name do you mean clhendricks BC? (British Columbia) or something else?
@clhendricksbc i mean this:
@sakrecoer Ah, that’s interesting. On my instance the CA is a Canadian flag icon. That’s what it looks like on the web & the app I use. Guess that emoji doesn’t come across everywhere!
@clhendricksbc ye, thats ironic. I suppose one could trigger huge conflicts with a malware that simply swaps the heart with a turd, smiley face with angryface etc... :D
@clhendricksbc @Gargron To be honest though the question is whether and how something like the fediverse can defend itself against these sorts of uses. It seems like this open environment is extremely susceptible to this kind of attack.. Perhaps its a vulnerability and intrinsic part of social media in general..
@rra @clhendricksbc @Gargron I take some solace in the idea that since posts are public and easily accessible, no one would want to buy that data, and if anyone made a third party app that tried something like that with private posts, or ran a malicious instance, or even tried to sell demographic data to sell ads, it seems like the culture here wouldn't tolerate it and that instance would be shunned.
hiveway was an interesting experiment, I expect we'll see more weird things like that.
@amsomniac @clhendricksbc @Gargron Yes the culture is a helpful buffer but for how long? If we can take the 'corporate takeover' of pawoo/pixiv as a reference (documented in detail here http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/335 ) what happens to the culture of the fediverse if it suddenly doubles or triples in size? I think intuitive ways of using multiple accounts (pseudonyms etc) would be helpful as a start.
@sakrecoer see above. I think same applies to the media literacy argument..
@rra sure thing! Knowledge is probably the best tool against any propaganda really. At the end of day, digitalized and botnet troll enhenced or not, that is what it is: propaganda. My tinfoil hat whispers that the CA breakdown is part of it. I mean, CA have been informed that their office will be searched, leaving plenty of time to clean up.
@Gargron @clhendricksbc @amsomniac @sakrecoer by the way these concerns can come across as negativity but its really the opposite, a love for potential of the platform. I think its important though to have the difficult discussion on how to make sure 'we' don't implement tech bro ideas with more ethical (decentralized, etc) tech, just to repeat the mistakes. Rather how can we use this to shift to a completely different model?
@duck57 @rra @clhendricksbc @Gargron what does a system resilient to untrusted instance admins/followers look like? is that worth trying for on a platform like gnu social/mastodon/diaspora/etc or can we just patch this in culture by using encrypted group chats in smol circles and aliases with exclusively public posts in the larger, public sphere?
@amsomniac @rra @Gargron Yes, good points. Also part of the issue is feeding people particular posts/stories based on that data in order to influence their political decisions (among other things). And so long as one is on an instance that doesn’t have that capability then at least that part won’t happen. Here’s to getting posts from people you follow as they post them (if they allow you to), in chrono order, with no weird algorithms.
@clhendricksbc Yeah. The whole thing has been terrible for too ong. I deleted FB accounts years ago and was free of it until volunteer and work stuff required an account. As soon as I can hand off some work-related pages etc time to delete again but it will be too late. Think ReplyAll podcast explained they have accounts in the system reflecting people who have never joined at all interpolating data from accounts mentioning them and from commercial data. No escape, but do not have to cooperate.
@gotanda Ack, that last bit is scary. Agreed that at least one doesn’t have to cooperate.
And how did we let it get to this point anyway? I guess because the convenience of the tools plus them being “free” was enough for most people to say “meh” about privacy. And I wonder how many will still do so for years to come.
@clhendricksbc If you haven't seen it: here's how to use FB but disable most of the "friends share your info" stuff.
@mwlucas Thank you for sending in case I hadn’t seen it! I did briefly scan that info earlier, but since I had deleted my account awhile ago I didn’t pay a lot of attention to it. But actually I should b/c I should send it to those who still have accounts there!
@clhendricksbc I really hope it soon becomes socially taboo to share data on others via social media without their consent. It's time etiquette was brought up to date
@stardot Yes, completely agree. I find it very troubling that apps can ask for, say, access to all your contacts and one can just say sure, okay (or instead just fail to turn off the option because it’s opt out rather than opt in), and that this is somehow not considered a major breach of privacy.
I'm still kicking myself for not first defriending everyone before deleting my account. I could probably log back in now and do it but that will reset the clock on its actual deletion.
@suetanvil I didn’t do that either when I deleted. I didn’t do anything but delete in a huff and rejoice when the deletion process was done and I tried to log in and couldn’t.
I can’t even remember what prompted my huff at the time...there have been so many reasons to delete. But you’re right—defriending would have been good.
@tohuvabohu I guess for some people these issues just aren’t on their radar (yet?).
This an old friend, I rarely see him, and its always for a short time.
He know I don't have a Facebook, but think it's all paranoia and just wants the convenience of connecting with old friends and sharing pictures.
Can't say I fault him for that - those are human needs, and like most people I know, he just lives in the moment, solves his day-to-day problems, goes to work, and doesn't want to think about the Orwellian hell-scape we live in.
Still hope he respected my request though.
@tohuvabohu Yes, I can see it makes sense not to fault others who just really want the human connection. Those of us who can, can work to change the hellscape!
@clhendricksbc you could demand them to delete it after GDPR becomes a thing. The fines are high enough to create some real motivation.
@nicolai Is that only for EU though? Not sure I can do that if I’m Canadian citizen.
@clhendricksbc true. I forgot that. I wonder if you have to be a resident or if a vacation in the EU is enough.
@clhendricksbc I think the later should do it, but I am not a lawyer.
@nicolai I’d be so happy if it were pretty easy to be covered by that. I am guessing one has to be a resident maybe? Will look into it!
@clhendricksbc a resident is covered for sure
@easegill I haven’t really heard about this until recently. I guess I was blissfully unaware. And now it just makes me angry.
@clhendricksbc The term was new to me too. I had partly been aware of it in the closed context of work. Publicly it's like having a set of photos with your face blanked out but once I have a few photos I can work out who you mix with, where you drink, work go on holiday...
@easegill Yeah, that is really creepy and makes sense but still creepy.
@clhendricksbc I wish I could delete my FB account - I don't really use it much - but I'm in a few groups that are only on FB that I don't want to drop. I did download my data today though, and thankfully they don't seem to have much more on me that what I make public anyway. But it's shocking what they've got on some people: https://twitter.com/dylanmckaynz/status/976368845635035138
@dominicduffin1 I totally understand. Until lots of people and groups can move to other things, many of us need to be there. I was lucky in that I didn’t need to!
And wow, that call history thing. I once let FB have access to my phone number to use Messenger for a brief period for a really crucial purpose. Who knows what they got from that. I didn’t download my data; I just left in an angry huff one day and didn’t look back. So I don’t know what they have!
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