I'm starting to think developers shouldn't use a system that's newer than 10 years old

Or managers

Or marketers

@cypnk yeah bloatware sucks, I wish I could find books on how to program without heavy ram or at least free ram. are looking really good now.

@cypnk @bamfic ok so I looked at it , basically from my opinion it鈥檚 Lua but using lisp syntax? So why not just lisp or scheme?

@Nixfreak @bamfic Can't speak to that directly, but I was considering it for ease of development. I'm using an ESP32 microcontroller for a DIY word processor project and I thought it would be interesting as a supported platform for it

@Nixfreak @cypnk @bamfic even in scheme/racket pattern matching is usually better than calling car and cdr directly. declarative code reads a lot more nicely.

@cypnk Venture Capitalists are the only people who really need to be convinced, imo. Devs like building performant software, marketers like selling it, etc. It鈥檚 the money people who push for the bare minimum.

@ashfurrow @cypnk devs using electronjs for desktop instead of learning C or Java:

@ashfurrow @cypnk why not? Electron is really bloated, running a full chromium just for an application is too much.

I don't mind if you use GTK or QT, but Electron is just too slow

@arielcostas @cypnk The language "instead of learning C or Java" complete ignores the point I made about how _business interests_ are the ones pushing for electron. you make it sound like it's the fault of lazy developers, and it's not.

Besides, I don't even agree that Electron is bloated. It's possible to create really great desktop apps in Electron, like VSCode. Most electron apps suck, but again that's due to business pressures.

@ashfurrow @cypnk it's true sometimes that it's because of business pressure, but others are because they don't want to find "desktop" developers of how you want to call them.

Many apps are bloated because they are the same trash on browser and electron, with a few API changes. See Discord for example, the performance is just poor

@cypnk I am, of course, entirely in favor of computer "advances" stopping in 1983.

@cypnk 10 years old was quite powerful machines in terms of regular desktop
@cypnk i am not even kidding, if i remember correctly, it was lga775 and 2gb of ram on mid level machine, from noticeable missing features i can pick absence of aes cpu instructions maybe....
@cypnk but, do not get me wrong, today pc's allow to create miracles, but shitter made chromium, java, javascript, dotnet instead (

@cypnk @tsturm Very relatable. Totally agree.

That said though, reminds me of the following 45-minute lecture I was recently forwarded, from 2014 by Joe Armstrong, entitled, "The Mess We're In":

:youtube: youtu.be/lKXe3HUG2l4

#ProgramBloat #OutOfMemory #ReversingEntropy

@cypnk well we took a hypertext rendering program and turned it into an operating system, so that's gonna leave a mark.

Image:

Computer RAM then
<beefy doge>
I'm 4kb and can send humans to the moon

Computer RAM now
<cowering doge>
chrome tab scary
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