@KitRedgrave That's how I understood it. When my dad was teaching me the bible, he made a point to make me understand the difference between religion and faith

Faith is orthogonal to the observable as it requires no evidence. But that also means literal interpretations are the bane of all good scientists (religious or not)

@cypnk @KitRedgrave yesssssss. very this.

( caveat: i was raised preeeeetty jewish, and, uh, the judaic "the law is not in heaven, the law is on earth" clause opens up a whooole exciting world of theological metaprogramming hijinx, so.... eh. ymmv. )

@gdkar @KitRedgrave From my own limited knowledge of Judaism, this leaves significant leeway for Rabis to interpret religious laws as times change

@cypnk @KitRedgrave yes.

( and. like, specifically talmudically there're a bunch of stories of the rabbies being like: "<interpretation of things>"
and god being like "oh, but... but no... no, see, that's /wrong/!"
and the rabbis basically just being like "hahahhahaha tough titties: you made the rules-about-us-getting-to-make-the-rules." 😎

and..... yeah.

( at least one of these involves god making a river flow backwards for a day and everyone else being like "yes....... and?" ) )

@gdkar @KitRedgrave This is one of the best explanations I've ever read

Thank you! 😂

@cypnk this is what I call a really lame attempt to gossip about my toot without me knowing. Please explain how science is kryptonite to religion? A huge portion of scientific advancements were by religious people. If you'd ever read a book you'd know that :)

@krruzic Indeed. Isaac Newton and Galileo were men of God. I have utmost respect of these and many others who try to understand the nature of the universe. My original toot was to a "you can't know the universe" replies to a science thread

You're free to browse my TL and if you replied now, it means I wasn't hiding the toot from you. I don't block anyone

My dad was Christian and my mom Buddhist. I have heard these over and over again. "Read a book" is how injured people respond

@krruzic One finds the truth in the universe when they're willing to step outside the boundaries of what they're taught to discover greater possibilities

Newton stopped discovering when he couldn't reconcile the nature of what he observed with what his faith taught him. Galileo was similarly hindered by his faith when he had to circumvent the Church. These are also found in numerous books about both men and many others

A common theme I've seen many times before is the default retort of implied ignorance

"Someone diminishing what you believe automatically diminishes you": This is the antithesis of critical thinking and it is the straight jacket religion wraps around your mind. And it highlights the dangers of religion as a concept beyond reproach is also beyond the reach of truth

As a former religious person, I take comfort in knowing escape from the asylum is still possible

Now we still have to deal with the effects religion still has on policy

When it comes to reproductive rights, marriage, equality, or just plain existing in this world unmolested, it's hard to navigate the rapids created by religion. Again, this has nothing to do with what deity(ies) you believe, but the dogma your particular brand of "Reality"(tm) you seek to imprint upon your peers

This need to inject dogma into the search for truth is both insidious and destructive to us a species

Somewhat counterintuitive proposal:

More religious studies classes. And by that, I don't mean someone of the faith trying to indoctrinate, but someone stepping outside of themselves to teach what they believe. Many instructors of many religions taking time to teach classes of the same students

When you have a perspective of the variety of faith, you learn to appreciate it as a byproduct of human imagination. I'd love to sit in for lessons on the Bhagavad Gita, the Bible, and Pali Canon

@cypnk i went to a christian college, and now i wish i had a more general experience with the perspectives of other religions

@tcql It's not too late. People like to hound the Internet for its frivolousness, but what of its greatest strengths is the ability to connect information like nothing else

There are translations of almost all religious texts available at your fingertips

@cypnk yea, i'd prefer a more personal guided tour i think. Like reading about the bible has always felt quite dull to me, it only felt like it mattered when i heard about people's personal connections to it, ya know?

basically i just need to make friends with somebody from like every religion and convince them to tell me about what it means to them

@tcql YouTube has somewhat bridged the gap there. There are some good resources that seek to educate without an ulterior motive

@cypnk I was raised without religion, so became a Religious Studies major to figure out what I was missing. It was both tremendously fascinating and an inoculation. I don't know how my fellow students who were faithful maintained it for four years.

@jdb This is the biggest tragedy of it all. We don't let beautiful paintings determine how we perceive our reality, but we only let them inform our experiences

When a panting becomes law, it is neither beautiful nor constructive

@cypnk Nicely put!

@cypnk I've always been thankful I had the opportunity to take a comparative religions elective in high school. of course it didn't go into great depth but it still touched on the things you mention and more. I recall my takeway being to note similarities/differences across religions and how subjective religious realities are, because these can't all be true (or, they can all be true, depending on the definition of true). I wish more people had/could have the same education.

@miscellanium It's a beautiful thing when we can approach the subject with the same perspective as art. The similarities are fun to spot as you can observe the giant tree of belief across history and all the branches and roots

You've been very fortunate to have that at a young age

If we study culture, we should also study religion since they're both tightly bound for the most part. Art and music too, for much of history, derived their interpretation from our attempts to explain the universe

@cypnk Daniel Dennett has advocated for this too. Teach kids all the religions of the world, not just the one preferred by their parents or community.

@cypnk Absolutely. It's part of culture and history across the world. And it is a fascinating topic if you can dig right into the philosophical and historical underpinnings in a supportive environment.

But...as someone who has compulsory religious education (much narrower and shallower than this) at two points during my school years, it's a risky undertaking too. It's one of those areas, I think, where the school system and culture can turn it into a minefield for some students.

@cypnk (But that's more a critique of power relations in the school system and society than of comparative or deep religious study.

There's an amazing group of theology scholars at my uni - while I do wish they were a bit more diverse, all of them have consistently been the most understanding and sensitive in approaching their topics that I've seen. Even when they were teaching less directly related courses. And that has made a huge difference in my attitude towards religion overall.)