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My boyfriend was using Pixelfed for months before he found out about the local/network timelines.

He doesn't understand the point, and told me I should make it easier to discover accounts and content.

Not everyone uses these platforms the same, and I wouldn't be surprised if most people never check local or network timelines.

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Anyways, its not really fair to compare Mastodon and Pixelfed since they are very different.

Wish all the best for the new app and the existing vibrant ecosystem of 3rd party apps!

@dansup hiding public timelines makes sense for pixelfed but not for mastodon imo. mastodon sites have more of a community niche because of being primarily text posts, whereas pixelfed is generalistic due to being more oriented to media sharing

@dansup also "hiding" it in pf would basically be just stripping out incomplete code at this point wouldnt it

@trwnh What do you mean? The local/network timelines in pixelfed are complete and work as expected.

@dansup i thought there were still bugs with them but to be fair i haven't been keeping up recently, been swamped with work -- it's another thing to check off the project management milestones i suppose

@dansup We're still pushing for a hashtag-based Discover as the main way to find stuff though, right?

@trwnh Oh I see, yeah we squashed a lot of bugs recently! I have a bunch of exciting stuff to push for our next release in the next few weeks. Mostly bug fixes and federation improvements, but I was able to squeeze in a few surprises 😁

@trwnh One could argue that it would be more important to focus on discovery and relevancy than a firehose of randomness that may overwhelm people. The medium is irrelevant.

@dansup It's not a firehose on most Mastodon sites, is the point. We're on one of the few sites that is an exception to that ;)

@trwnh @dansup That’s not even true. There are plenty of large servers around. And the federated feed is garbage even on small ones. People don’t seem to understand it’s not even “bad moderation” problem sometimes but a middle aged person coming across a perfectly allowed hypersexual shitpost, or a perfectly allowed, CW’d nude.

@Gargron @trwnh @dansup As the admin of an instance with about 10 active users I can confirm that the federated timeline is more than 50% garbage even on our very small instance. But again, I do use the federated timeline sometimes as a means of discovery, although it's not really very effective unless I'm getting lucky.

@Gargron federated feed can be trashy and/or overwhelming. Local feed on small instances often is pretty cool on the contrary

@trwnh @dansup

@Gargron still, you’re right when you say (on github) that those public timelines are confusing to new non-techy users @dansup @trwnh

@Gargron I would agree that the federate timeline is not great. I rarely look at it, and when I do it's by accident. I love my local timeline though, and I've been told many times that the local feed is one of the best things about the instance. I agree. We work really hard to keep our local timeline relevant and accessible.

@trwnh @dansup

@mike @Gargron @trwnh @dansup Agreed! I know for a fact that many Fosstodon users love their local timelines. Ive also been part of several other smaller or regional servers that take food care of their local timeline as it plays an important role for the development of the community.

@telroy @huy_ngo

@Gargron @trwnh @dansup The fed timeline might be a hot mess, but it's a real honest representation of the userbase.

I could argue it's not only the ethical but cultural thing to show hypersexual shitposts to middle aged people. This is about expanding peoples perceptions.

"Death to the filter bubble" as in giving us a unmoderated and pure feed is a matter of principle to me. Protecting the easily scared WASP isn't a good thing.

If you want to focus on discoverability or relevancy. do that!

@Gargron @trwnh @dansup Plus I've been asking for the ability to add "community or sister instances" into the local timetime.

I'd love to be able to show all posts by all Australian instances in the same place... That would help the discoverability issue for me 1000%

I'd love to find a way to connect multiple instances that share a common trait together.

but I haven't seen any movement in supporting anything close to that. The focus on the major monoliths is a real heartbreaker.

@Gargron @trwnh @dansup I guess what I'm saying is DO BOTH

Offer the wildwest timetime (and local timeline) and do whatever is required to grow the user base.

Technically, isn't the federated timeline on my small instance, just a representation of all of the accounts all of the users on my instance follow? so in theory if they're not following trash, it should be clean enough and relatable to my users?

+ I mean I've previously used relays just to get more of that trash into my federated feed

@dansup the usage pattern for masto is very impulsive by nature compared to pixelfed, both in creating and viewing posts...more thought is put into the pictures shared and followers linger a bit longer to admire the pictures they are interested in.

But Pixelfed and Mastodon were also developed from opposite directions. You put tons of thoughtful effort into making a great picture sharing platform then added federation. Eugen started with federation and built up the platform from there

@dansup I mean, that's a valid way of doing so but it's not an argument against making public timelines accessible

@dansup it would be nice if the other timelines were kept even if they were tucked away in an "advanced" section of a hamburger menu to keep the UI simpler but still accessible.

My instance is very small so my local timeline is obviously very boring but I check it daily because I'd miss what my locals are saying among all the stuff on home from all my follows. Conversely I check my federated timeline to see what interesting stuff my locals are following. The vibe here is very different!

@dansup I think Eugen's perspective is strongly influenced by how very large microblogging sites work. His instance is so huge and has no target audience so local and federated look like a firehose of spam but for smaller and/or specialised instances they are actually still the best way to find cool new stuff!

@msh @dansup I don't think Eugen's intention was to provide a universal mastodon app, but one that is explicitly targeted for non-techies and beginners that first look for "Mastodon" in their stores. And by the way the app appears to be designed it feels to me that it is thought as a starting point to discover the fediverse. And since people only know big social networks, with simple concepts it is a sensible decision to fetch em with that experience, have em settle and then go deeper.

@msh @dansup Just remember how many people are unable to tell the difference between an app and the service behind it. People are really simple minded concerning technology and if the app is not intuitive and easy to use, they will condemn the whole thing.

@msh Yeah I get that, I use the local timeline a lot on my instance for moderation purposes.

Hiding the advanced stuff like that is a brilliant idea!

@msh @dansup came here to say this. Local and network timelines could be disabled by defaut with the option to turn them on in the settings. We should empower users by giving them the choice, not make decisions and hope they work for everyone.

@dansup Not everyone on *large* timelines do

Small instances thrive on the local TL. It's basically the only way you find new users on those instances

Even on web, there's the "Discover users" and "See what's happening" links so the idea that they won't get used on apps is mistaken at best, misleading at worst

But the missing audio port on smartphones, when prominent players do something, it has an influence on other players. Not always for the better

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