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No matter what happens to Mozilla, please everyone, don't start using Brave.

@despens

Why not? What's wrong with Brave? What is a better alternative?

@despens all i had to see was "based on chromium" to know it can go in the trash

@SonOfFanon @despens

choices:
* Safari (WebKit) - owned by a corporation that wants your money
* Chrome or Chromium (Blink) - owned by a corporation that wants your data to make money with it
* Edge (Blink) - owned by a corporation that wants your money, engine owner wants your data
* Opera (Blink) - owned by a corporation that runs short-term predatory loans in Africa as a side business, engine owner wants your data
* Brave (Blink) - redirects links to crypto affiliates, engine owner wants your data

@brion @SonOfFanon @despens Other choices:

Firefox: Built by an organization that desperately needs more people to use the browser. (It's not dead yet, even though it was badly hurt in the last round of layoffs.)

GNOME Web (aka: Epiphany): Community built browser that's quite good by default. It does use the WebKit engine built by Apple (& Igalia) though. But it's one of the few browsers that isn't Firefox that is not based on Chromium.

@brion @SonOfFanon @despens Details:

Firefox is still the only cross-platform and fully independent choice. It has been hurt before and keeps coming back. So this (hopefully) isn't the end, even if the layoffs were a major setback.

GNOME Web (Epiphany) only works on Free Software desktops (Linux and BSD based systems, so no Windows or Mac ports) and does depend on WebKit (which is actively maintained mainly by Apple).

@garrett @brion @SonOfFanon @despens If you're adventurous, you can also try:

* Commandline browsers like Lynx
* Netsurf
* Dillo
* Rhapsode - my own effort

These are all small independant efforts.

While they do seem to work on a majority of webpages, they break on more popular pages. Including ones you might need, so keep a more mainstream browser on hand!

@garrett @brion @SonOfFanon @despens water fox can be a replacement, it’s a good and alive fork of Firefox without telemetry and similar bs

@samir

Keep in mind, that the browser should do more than just "keeping up", but also work on new and modern web standards. These days that's a field basically owned by Chromium. And I don't see Waterfox working towards new Web standards but just keeping up with security patches and bug fixes.

@garrett @brion @SonOfFanon @despens

@sheogorath @samir @brion @SonOfFanon @despens Sure.

Right now, Firefox is ahead with several implemented standards that Chrome still hasn't added. (gap for flex, grid masonry, justify/align in flex to start/end instead of flex-start/flex-end, etc.)

Meanwhile, Chrome has a few Google-specific features and anti-features that aren't even on a standards track.

But they're both mostly at feature parity.

@sheogorath @samir @brion @SonOfFanon @despens (But, yeah, some big teams doing innovation at Firefox were cut. So it might slip at some point in the future. But it's fine for the present and the near future.

However, there are still a lot of bright people there working on Gecko, so not all is lost.

And Firefox has a bunch of features like better privacy, blocking, & containers that Chrome won't get.)

@garrett @sheogorath @samir @brion @SonOfFanon @despens

apart from trying to get more users for Firefox, I wonder what the best way to help them is. I donate to the foundation (but it doesn't fund the corp, it's the other way around); I signed up for Scroll and Pocket premium too. Refusing to sign up for the VPN since it seems less useful than going to Mullvad directly.

Given a direct subscription to Scroll costs the same I wonder how much Mozilla even makes from me.

@garrett @brion @SonOfFanon @despens Yup IMO Firefox is a pretty compelling choice. I wish everyone wouldn't write it off as a result of the layoffs. The right answer here IMO is to lean in and contribute rather than running away.

@brion @SonOfFanon @despens

AFAIK Brave de-Googles Chromium very well, and the ads they show don't track you.

Is there evidence of Brave tracking user browsing behavior (aside from BAT, which is allegedly anonymous or at least pseudonymous)?

@elimisteve @SonOfFanon @despens I don't give a shit if they do or not, it's run by a raging homophobe who was run out of Mozilla on a rail

@Felthry @despens a web browser that blocks ads, but serves other ads to you in exchange for some cryptocurrency

there's... certainly some discourse to be had over it

@haldorsen

Alt som ikkje er Brave 😅 Den driver fleire uetiske greier

Men tøffe alternativer til mozilla som er opensource prosjekter er epiphany, librefox, palemoon, falkon.

@christoffer Hva gjør de da? Har hørt rykter om at de manipulerer enkelte lenker for å få affiliate-fortjeneste, men ikke noe mer enn det (men det er jo selvfølgelig ikke greit det heller). De nettleserne du nevner er vel først og fremst for Linux, og kanskje ingen som er på f.eks. Android? En fordel for meg med f.eks. Brave (eller Chrome / Firefox / Vivaldi) er at jeg kan ha den samme nettleseren på Mac og mobilen.

@haldorsen

Vell, om du ville bruke chrome, brave og vivaldi er det på ein måte ikkje så farleg. Å ikkje byte frå mozilla til brave er meir om ein bruke etisk programvare og fleire er misfornøyde med nokon ting Mozilla har gjort i det siste. Problemet er at sjølv om Brave er opensource og personvern fokusert er den eigentleg ikkje fokusert mot etisk programvare slik som anna programvare som ein typisk bruker til for eksempel Linux.

@10X @despens The two largest controversies has been the incident with them auto-completing URLs to certain cryptocurrency site with an affiliate link and that they collect donations on behalf of content creators and keep the money for themselves.

There's also the ethical discussion with replacing ads on websites with their own ads.

Some has said that Brave is only a "cash-crab" project and that they don't care about privacy or their users.

@hund @10X @despens On the other hand I guess it’s perfectly fine that Firefox get it’s blood money from Google, because it’s all for a good cause.

@frankstrater @10X @despens I'm not so okay with it considering the fact where Google got them from. :)

@despens Yikes this is a slippery slope. It's unclear to me whether or not Brave is any less ethical than Firefox. Who defines the metrics for what's ethical and what's not? Seems like both Brave and Firefox are struggling with the problem of funding 100% open source software in a capitalist world. It's a hard problem, I'm tempted to give them both a fair bit of slack.

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