@KevinMarks @strypey @cwebber

What would a partnership of indieweb and activitypub look like? Can they play nicely together? Or would they fight?

@strypey @bhaugen @KevinMarks @cwebber Not an expert but I don't think it's *necessarily* (although very common) about being self-hosted, it's about owning your identity and your data. e.g. micro.blog provides hosted services that adhere to indieweb protocols (and principles).

In some ways its closer to Hubzilla than Mastodon, IMO.

The reason I mention that (and hope I'm correct in saying so) is that I think it's vital that indieweb does not expect everyone will self-host.

@strypey @neil @bhaugen @KevinMarks I'm not really interested in "by developers, for developers", because my target is not "liberate developers", it is "liberate everyone"

@strypey @neil @cwebber @KevinMarks

The reason we are going with personal ActivityPubs (as well as organizational ActivityPubs) is that an individual (me, for example) can participate and federate with many organizations and other individuals.

Any or all of those could be hosted by cooperatives.

But the structure matches what we see happening around us.

@strypey @neil @cwebber @KevinMarks

I am also not opposed to multi-person sites. We will have some. And also easy hosting opportunities.

/he says before it has all happened....8-)

@bhaugen Easy hosting - yes please! Definitely part of the vision? Starting now, not in the future! For example, I'm stunned there seems to be no hosting service for Mediawik that doesn't require me to adopt the 'server admin' role - which I absolutely don't have time or priorities or brain cells for. I could really use a wiki. But no way am I going to hack CSS or install modules - no matter how well written the help files are. Life's too short.
@strypey @neil @cwebber @KevinMarks

@mayel Thanks Mayel. In fact it was at webarchitects that I was disappointed to find no 'server admin-free' package for Mediawiki. They will host. But I would have to manage the apps/modules they were hosting. Too tech and time consuming for me. Content is where my time goes.

It would be helpful to know the other side - how time consuming/costly/ill-fitting would this kind of 'tech-naive' service be, for a coop that basically offers common-carrier hosting to tech-capable clients?

@mike_hales

Doesn't that page says that they set up the modules for you? And even if not included in the service, they offer per-hour support: https://www.webarchitects.coop/support

Customer service / tech support can indeed be very costly, not only in time/money, but emotionally!

In my experience while there's some people I am very happy to freely gift my assistance to, most other cases I find very draining to deal with (no matter if they're paying or not)... Maybe I'm just not well suited for this kind of work, but I get the impression that society has taught most of us to be entitled and demanding (and often rude) towards service providers, which makes sense as a reaction to capitalist/exploitative companies (though shouldn't excuse mistreating their workers) but in the case of technology seems to encourage the infantilisation of "users", and in the case of indie or co-op services can be very discouraging. </rant>

@mayel @mike_hales

I think somebody posted this here before, but it applies to this, too. How capitalism teaches everybody to exploit everybody they can possibly exploit.
eand.co/how-capitalism-taught-

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@bhaugen @mayel @mike_hales
"(I know, it sounds strange if you’re not American.)" True..

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