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Programming, when studied deeply and trying to be conscious about the process it's a really interesting topic. It makes you learn about yourself and the way you think.

It helps you learn about how people thinks.
It teaches you about how to tell stories, how to teach, how do you structure your own mind.

Programming is teaching a stupid machine to look like it's thinking, so you have to know really well what thinking means. Also what teaching means.

@ekaitz_zarraga By teaching machines, you also teach other human beings. If you teach a machine how to do a thing, it starts doing a thing; by letting a human see how you taught a machine, they start being able to teach machines as well.

...unless you code is an unreadable mess. Do you remember to make your code understantable for people? Is that set of people greater than just you?

@phoe Sure!
That's another part of the concept of programming.
Good point.

@ekaitz_zarraga if I tried to teach people the way I teach machines, they'd quickly get bored and stop paying attention.

@Wolf480pl Never implied that you should teach people and computers the same way. I said you learn about teaching.

Maybe what you learn is to do it differently depending on who are you teaching.

@ekaitz_zarraga if I learned about teaching, wouldn't that make me better at teaching?

@Wolf480pl

1) Depends if you apply what you learn or not

2) If you do it yes, but it doesn't mean you have to use the exact same method in every context. Choosing the correct method in each context is also learning how to do something.

@ekaitz_zarraga what if I don't know any other method, except the one I know is not applicable to humans?

@Wolf480pl It could teach you other methods.

I don't even know what are you trying to discuss here.

I never said that we should teach computers and people in the same way. I just said you can learn more about teaching thanks to programming.

What are you trying to reach with this conversation?

@ekaitz_zarraga I'm not arguing we should teach computers and humans using the same methods. I'm just arguing that what we from programming about teaching, if any, isn't much helpful.

@ekaitz_zarraga Or rather, I'm expecting to be proven wrong, to be proven that being good at programmning makes it easy for me to be a good teacher, in a way that I didn't realize.

@Wolf480pl You can only improve your teaching skills if you use a little bit of empathy here and there.
Programming is a rational thing, you can master it if you master rational thinking. If you master rational thinking and use empathy you can rationalize other people's rational thinking through yourself.

Programming can help you understand the same thing in very different ways. That's useful for teaching because each person have their own preference on the way they understand things.

@Wolf480pl I can give you more examples:

Programming lets you create mental maps easily. Boosts your ability to make abstractions and work in an abstract environment.

That makes you a powerful understanding machine. If you mix that with a little bit of empathy, you can use it to understand people. Or at least to help people rationalize their learning process.

That's my opinion.

Does this give you a better idea of what I mean?

@ekaitz_zarraga it makes sense, but doesn't seem like I've ever seen it in action.

I have no problem understanding computers. I enjoy exploring and understanding how computers, programs, machines, etc. work.

But I have trouble understanding people. They often seem like opaque black boxes, doing unpredictable things for unknown reasons.

Also, I don't understand how I learn things. I often learn stuff without noticing how I learned it, and then I'm surprised other people don't know it.

@Wolf480pl I'm a very rational dude so it might only work for me.

:D

In your case you might need some more empathy for understanding other people's approach to learning? Or maybe you need to understand you approach first?

I don't know. It's impossible to understand a person totally, but in a teaching-learning environment you can do it well enough. Make the right questions, learn from the questions they make and all that.

@Wolf480pl Hack them. Just like you do with a computer.

HACK ALL THE THINGS

@ekaitz_zarraga Hacking involves trying to do stupid things to the subject being hacked, and watching what happens. I don't think humans will like it :P

@ekaitz_zarraga ofc you can decrease the stupidity of those experiments by first reading the source code, or at least the disasm, but that's not available here...

@Wolf480pl It is: observation.

And you'll probably do some stupid things and you'll need to deal with the consequences and the embarrassment, but life is hard!

@ekaitz_zarraga observation is not the same. Observation is more like looking at wireshark logs. Though I agree it can be useful.

@Wolf480pl You can also make them interact with complex stuff and make it look like an accident.
Explain stuff in a complex way on purpose to look to the reactions and all that.

They are black boxes but they show much more than they think (muahahaha)

@ekaitz_zarraga if you mean nonverbal comms then I totally suck at it :/

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@ekaitz_zarraga
Los dos primeros me han sonado muy familiares. El último, no me lo esperaba; tengo que releerlo ir asumiéndolo poco a poco.

@ekaitz_zarraga Mostly programming for me is just teaching myself, the slow stupid machine, how to teach faster stupid machines to do things... and neural nets are taking that away from me too. How do install neural net inside own head? :think_bread:

@jdkendall Hahah

Neural Nets are not really aware of what they know or they don't so they are not very useful in a human mind.

Wait a minute. Human minds are neural nets. Aren't they?

Are we aware of what we know?

What's the meaning of life?

:psyduck:

@ekaitz_zarraga
"Programming a machine to make you believe it's not one" ⤵
ocelotsociety.itch.io/event0

(Shamelessly posting this, it's the project I worked on in my final year studies, but this is the 'professional revamped' version where half the team (not me) made a real studio to work on it !)

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