@rey
Why is it relevant? Was it created at Berkeley? (I don't know, just curious). So, the name is bad because creators were likely to aware it's bad.

Should have Windows Vista been renamed because it's a funny name in Latvian?

My point is, that on the international scale it's likely that a name will mean something less than appropriate for some group of people somewhere on the Earth.

@ekaitz_zarraga @grainloom @hirojin

@rey @ekaitz_zarraga @grainloom @hirojin

Also there is a football player Nasri, which in Russian sounds similar to a phrase "go and shit" which actually means "don't give a fuck". It's unrealistic to expect the guy to actually change his name.

The naming issue a freedom of speech issue. We've got a group of people that created something and decided to name it's the way it's named.

@pixel @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin GIMP was intended to have a, well, for lack of a better term, politically incorrect name
after all, it used to be called "the GIMP" for quite a while. you know. after the sex slave character from an internationally famous movie.
and it's not a personal name either. you are drawing false equivalences.

@grainloom
That's a good point.

I want to focus more how the name is perceived, not on it's origin. In this case, I think, to comparisons are relevant.

Languages are powerful. Ambiguity is one of the basic phenomena. "Pussy" will mean different things in a kindergarten and in a high school.

I can't see how outsiders can force the core team to change the name.
@rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

@pixel @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin
Which is why the core team sucks. They should listen to people. The very problem is that some people _cannot_ become core members because of the name. (and the attitude of the current core team)

@grainloom

Yes, but this is what they've created the way they wanted. If they don't listen to this argument, it's their choice.

@rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

@pixel @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin
True. I hope the fork gains traction.

@grainloom

I see two arguments.

The first is that most of the words are ambiguous and it's meaning is resolved given the context. In IT context, GIMP means an image editor.

@rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

@grainloom @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

The second is that gimp is toxic speech that hurts people. To make this argument one needs to show that GIMP as a project has enough power to qualify as hate speech.

@grainloom @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

* "Free Speech in the Digital Age" edited by Susan J. Brison and Katharine Gelber

* "Speech and Harm" edited by Ishani Maitra and Mary Kate McGowan

These two books are good starting point. Lynne Tirrel's work goes in deep details.

@grainloom @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

I find the argument that the name of a project is hate speech weak, because one needs to show that it has power over the oppressed group.

@pixel Who are you to define the argument. It is that gimp, as a name, is toxic enough to dissuade people from feeling comfortable using or participating in the project. It is exclusionary. (While that isn't directly oppressive, it does play into social structures of oppression, so I find the argument that it facilitates oppression strong, and the argument that isn't oppressive weak.) @grainloom @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

@emsenn
Of you want to go personal, I'm nothing and my opinion doesn't worth anything. I don't use GIMP and neither find it's name offensive.
@grainloom @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

@pixel I'm not getting personal, I'm telling you: you are misconstruing the argument of those you are disagreeing with. That is a logical fallacy; it's most commonly called "strawmanning;" I forget the latin.

Since we're discussing it personally; I don't use GIMP because people have used that term as a slur toward me and the software name reminds me of it. Beyond that, I don't like letting people who don't respect me make my tools. @grainloom @rey @ekaitz_zarraga @hirojin

@emsenn @pixel @grainloom @rey @hirojin Note: they aren't doing YOUR tool. They are making a tool and you are allowed to use it.

I understand the argument but I don't have the same experience. I've been called many things (sadly, none good) and I don't hate the words themselves.

@ekaitz_zarraga @emsenn @pixel @rey @hirojin
That's a bit too individualistic. Maybe a bit more than a bit.
The idea is that free software should benefit people. If all they do is scratch their own itch, they aren't better than paid proprietary software. They are possibly worse, even, since a company at least has to listen to its customers.

@xj9 @hirojin @emsenn @pixel @rey @ekaitz_zarraga
"stop telling me to clean my room, mom!"

@xj9 @hirojin @emsenn @pixel @rey @ekaitz_zarraga
What you have a right to do and what is actually good for you and others are not the same thing.

@xj9 @hirojin @emsenn @pixel @rey @ekaitz_zarraga
Is ten individuals more important than one? Is one FOSS dev more important than a thousand people who can't get into programming but need software for their work?

@grainloom
That's not comparable so you can never know.
But anyway you are talking like the FOSS dev is the only one able to touch the project and that is wrong.

@grainloom I can be hired to fork stuff.

Damn, if someone asks I'll do it for free!

@grainloom It is unacceptable to ask others to do stuff because *reasons*.

This is the same discussion I had with people saying blocking in mobile clients GAB was bad.
If you don't like the decision you are free to take your own one, but we can't force people to take the decisions we want.

People at GIMP chose a bad name on purpose and they are idiots. Is it fair? I don't care. It's their choice.

Fuck them, let's make them obsolete (That's why I love Glimpse).