3 considerations for any political action:
1. If your action couldn't possibly have negative consequences for you, it is of no consequence
2. If your action requires media attention to have any impact, it has no impact.
3. Working in the realm of ideas and symbols is not worthless, but working exclusively at that level is.

when we blocked off the ICE HQ as an action and got arrested, it did have potential risk to us; but we were only symbolically blocking the building. There were back entrances that were still open and nobody was even in the building that day because of renovations. We even made a path behind us so people could get through. We still got arrested but the renovations and ICE operations were not impeded. It relied entirely on media attention and it failed to get our demand (a stay of removal for someone)

It depended on the Image of the HQ being blocked off but did not do anything. The media cycle paid attention to the action for a single day and moved on. It was of no consequence, had no impact, and ultimately like I had the experience of going to jail as a learning experience i guess but it didnt... do anything of importance

Compare and contrast to the recent action in PDX where they surrounded the ICE HQ completely and blocked off the only garage exit and would *not* allow cars to exit the building; completely impeding operations, risking arrest, and forcing the facility to shut down.

1. They absolutely risked negative consequences
2. This would have worked regardless of if the media paid attention
3. They materially shut down the facility. It was not exclusively about attention, ideas, or symbols; though they did employ it

The Occupy movement likewise struggled due to this:

1. They did risk negative consequences
2. When the media distorted and ignored their demands, it broke any effectiveness they could have
3. All they really did was symbolically live in parks. They didn't actually shut down the wall street firms by occupying their buildings. It was a symbolic gesture exclusively as besides Being Kinda Noisy they didn't impede anything.

There's always a big difference between what a political movement does, and what is perceived as their actions, and I just have to take issue with "all [you] really did was symbolically live in parks." No, we did a lot more to directly confront the people we took issue with. The problem falls outside the direct action folk; they're doing enough. It's the ancillary teams that aren't making sure their actions are represented.

@rocket @shel As I said, and you highlight, the failing was on the behavior of the ancillary teams, but what you describe is not the behavior of the coordinators who lived at the camps.

Further, if you want to have a productive conversation, don't refer to me in third person as a fucker and say the things that got me beaten were "pageantry." Even if you believe that, I don't consider that an appropriate way to address another human.