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1984: We can't talk here, they might have bugs to wiretap us.

2018: Bug, order me some pizza!

@troubleMoney Oh might god, it's so friggin' cute. I got to get a pair of them!!1!

@fribbledom I know right?!

Five minutes before I learned about it existing I was all "no, I'm not going to put an internet connected wiretap in my house, that's stupid" but now I'm all "aww... I wanna give cute robot a home!"

@fribbledom "Can I get a Quattro stagioni for me and a baked in calzone for the gentlemen in the FBI surveillance van outside."

@fribbledom
I was screaming about this for a couple years brandishing a dumbphone. Then I gave up.

@fribbledom i think my favorite take on this is the "Wiretap, can cats eat pancakes?" mem that was going around over some Alexa adverts a little while back.

@gemlog
People adapt to virtually any conditions. Whether they want it or not.
@fribbledom

@amiloradovsky Ppl look at me like I have two heads when I say I don't have a phone. No landline and no cell phone.
I have two devices /capable/ of being phones registered to other ppl, but with no SIM. Sophisticated palmpilots really; something to read.

@gemlog
I tried to live without a SIM for years, but every essential on-line service now requires 2FA via SMS, or confirmation by calling back.
Anyway, I almost never answer phone calls unless they're from somebody I know or are scheduled. Nor do I make them, unless there is no other way: prefer texting, or VoIP, if text is not enough.
Still, it doesn't change the fact that I have to always think about it listening, watching, etc., and generally being controlled by who knows who.

@amiloradovsky Yes, we never have the source for the radio(s).
I had as many as 5 phones a few years ago, paid for by others. Crazy. I'm 57 and since i was 17 been 'connected' and accessible by a succession of beeper, pagers and phones. I will never pay for one.
Zoho and gmail keep trying for a phone number, but I use pop/imap and ignore them.

@gemlog
It's not just Google etc. wanting to "secure my account". It's banks and stores/exchanges, even government services, which pretty much require a phone number.
Yet I don't think just refusing to use all of those services is a solution — mobility is important.
I could probably use someone else's numbers, but that sounds a bit irresponsible to me, even if that's an organization and I'm not going to trade guns, drugs, etc. with it anyway…

@amiloradovsky I have always refused credit cards - even back when I had a mortgage and car loan. I could heat my house with the offers.
One branch of my govt (medical service) thinks I live in a strip mall I haven't had an office in for 20 years. My drivers license displays a street address that doesn't exist (their clerical error) and I just keep it going. Lets me vote and insure my vehicle. Loyalty cards are in the name of charities. I don't know why I care to be anon. It's sort of a game.

@gemlog
Being anonymous is kind of romantic.
IDK, either it's the nuts are tightened so much here or me being so much conformist, but it seems like I wouldn't even have what I have now (which is basically nothing anyways) if I refused to play with the org's at all.

@amiloradovsky A couple of things know my name, but it is quite common. I'm not hard to find really. It's not something I planned out, it's just a tendency to not give up info to corps.
I was incensed when a common grocer introduced 'loyalty' cards for 'reduced pricing'. I instantly saw their actual use & the punishment for Not using them. A friend was working as a cashier on another lane and heard me winding up "Gemlog, Gemlog, you can have an anonymous one!" Points go to childrens hospital.

@gemlog
Loyalty cards, just like "cash-back", is a system to charge more those people who don't have it (i.e. outsiders), a tribal thing, IMO. It really is just another marketing trick. And also a method for collecting a more detailed statistics about the customers. Either way, it is not a substantial economic optimization. But also relatively harmless.

@gemlog
WRT the donations, the theory goes like this:
Financing public schools and hospitals should be a primary function of the state/gov't, not of charities.
While charities/non-profits should be primarily focused on functions which neither government nor business can do. Such as watching and promoting the laws' changes, supporting honest journalists exposing corruption.

@gemlog
If the essential public services indeed depend on charities for the funding, it is a marker of broken political system. And when businesses are bragging about supporting charities it's merely a marketing expenditure for them.
So I'd call it just a multiplayer game with a pretty low stakes and nothing more. Sorry, if that sounds cynical.

@amiloradovsky Absolutely.
Mostly in my country the medical system works.
It is not up to me or you to change the political system in other countries, but the people still suffer and we can help.
The goal is to heal and relieve suffering. Effecting political change is a different (but coincident) goal.
I don't think you can abdicate helping based on them not being the same thing.

@gemlog
A lot of countries do have a broken political system. It may well be that vast majority of human population live under such. And the public services there do depend on donations. It's just not that businesses' primary motive is to improve the situation. So direct donations should be more effective, but are also too much hassle for most people.
Anyway, reducing the disparity in the quality of life across various regions of the #Earth is a very sensible goal, I agree.

@amiloradovsky I live below the poverty line in my country and I can still help a little. So that means almost everyone in the g8 can. It only takes a little. I'm not saying 3rd world countries for medicine like the USA shouldn't change. Just saying real people need your help now. My CAD money goes further in Africa and Central and South America. Parts of Asia. Thats why I focus there.

@gemlog
Yes, actually, everyone who is not literally living without money (e.g. in a harsh isolated place) can and should donate something above zero. The difficult question is whom to give it.

The limit I've set for myself is 1/20 of my income: 2σ ≈ 0.05 is a natural quantity, variations below which are usually neglected in statistics, and in everyday life too.
This quantity however doesn't let me afford recurring donations to more than one recipient. So I only do one-time's.

@amiloradovsky Well. that is interesting.
I don't have a formulae. I just look at my account.
Hey, I've already paid rent. I don't need car insurance this month and the gas tank isn't reading below empty. Do I have bread and milk? Cool.
I could do something...

What do billionaires do? How do they even live with themselves? Or millionaires even? Sick fucks as far as I'm concerned. Just greedy, amoral people.

Sorry for the cussing..., but it's true.

@gemlog
I'm actually pretty neutral towards billionaires, I know nothing about them, I'm not even sure they really exist and aren't just a bugbears. — I only witnessed organizations and people of "my level" doing "not nice" things. So I doubt it is any constructive to blame a hypothetical billionaires or any other mythical persons I only saw & heard about on the mass media. — What if the characters we believe are the powerful ones, in reality, are just a poor actors and actresses?

@amiloradovsky I am not going to debate the existence of billionaires with you.

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@gemlog
Theoretically, top managers are essentially also an employees, and are fired if they don't "perform" well enough. And who has the real power are the investors/stockholders, who make all the crucial decisions.
But why would they ever reveal their identities to the public?

@amiloradovsky
I do give street people money to spend on their addiction. One of my kids hands out feminine things, toques, gloves etc along with coffees and muffins. She's my best one! :-)
See here a bloke saying where his money is going:
youtube.com/watch?v=j89mEHL6Y7
I know exactly where it is going. I don't need a 3rd person.
Sometimes I give food, sometimes I give money for the addiction. Sue me.

@amiloradovsky harmless? No
Those 'loyalty' cards uniquely track you as a shopper. They are also matched to your payment method (visa, mc, debit) and then THOSE records are matched. You don't think these corps sell the data to each other? They do. And of course all the banks correlate the data, because... BANKS! And then the credit reporting corps swap the stuff around. And your electricity company. And your ISP..
"relatively harmless"??
And your email addresses. You need to buy tinfoil from me

@gemlog
Well, I meant that they're less harmful than e.g. tracking & trading people's private conversations. — Like a bomb^H^H^H^H explosion device without shrapnel is "relatively harmless"… (compared to that with added shrapnel). — You got the idea.

@amiloradovsky Funny!
OK, yes 'relatively' harmless.
You and @jeremiah always trip me up on the specific meanings of common words.

@jeremiah @amiloradovsky
si, too much startrek in my mis-spent youth! :-)

Oh my. Jeremiah, may you live forever and keep my poor brain working! :-)

@amiloradovsky I'm just trying to think of who can demand a number from me. No one. I use an online bank tangerine.ca/en/index.html Paypal doesn't know my name. Bezos is such an asshole i don't give him another nickle he doesn't need, but they never knew my name anyhow. Gearbest seems decent and doesn't know my name. No one can force you to have a phone - in my country anyhow. A friend of mine calls them 'trackers'.

@gemlog
I have #Lineage OS installed on an older device, used for the 2FA; but the exact model of the new device isn't listed among supported, and I'm afraid to erase the stock ROM — I may be unable to write it back, in case of a failure. Plus the stock ROM is still not that horrible.
Yet, I need a SIM for the Internet access from wherever I may want…

@amiloradovsky There is free wifi everywhere in my town, so it isn'tan issue for me. That's too bad.
Despite the number of phones that have been given me and then 'retired' to me, none have been capable of being rooted and having new open firmware. Just bad luck.

@gemlog
Well, here free WiFi may only be found in cafes etc. And the wired ISPs are not only more expensive, but also treat the customers much worse, IME. So I opted for 3G/LTE.
That the bootloader of none of those phones could be unlocked is not a coincidence, IMO. — Those who ordered them had other criteria…

@amiloradovsky I didn't realize we had it so good until your post. Yes, all restaurants and cafes pretty much have to have wifi or who would go there? Even grocery stores like Safeway or ones like Walmart provide free wifi. Any business with fibre (all pretty much?) from Telus ISP has a second modem with public wifi telus.com/en/bc/support/articl. Even the farmers market and library park have free wifi - I think from the other telco/cable outfit. I just make up an email address on one of my domains.

@amiloradovsky I have two devices and both display 'No SIM Emergency Calls Only'
As I mentioned in another post, I didn't realize I was so fortunate to have an abundance of free wifi.
Even away from town "hey, what's your wifi password?" Who refuses you? No one.
Also, I know ppl who run open wifi for plausible deniability :-)
Mind you canucks are about as likely to be charged with piracy as smoking dope. An ISP will email you a complaint - but won't give up your name to the corp complaining.

@amiloradovsky I just thought I do another thing I originally thought strange in my youth: I never answer the door Ever*
My friends know to simply walk in - it's never locked. Anyone else can just go away, I obviously don't know them
My car got tossed a few months ago So? I have nothing to lose

* ~4 years ago I answered to an rcmp, because I was curious. It was a murder on the next street. Legit questions. Still, he needed plenty of reminders of the limits to his 'powers': you work for me pal!

@mangeurdenuage @fribbledom
2016: Podesta emails. their content isn't what's important, but who did it

@fribbledom

Bug then orders you a sheepskin rug and then shows you ads for sheepskin rugs thereafter for all eternity.

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