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P.S.: No, I still won't call it GNU/Linux.

@fribbledom I never did, just to spite RMS/Fossbros. I was ahead of the game 🤣

@fribbledom To me it's elementary OS, Ubuntu, Arch, Guix, etc. Not Linux or GNU/Linux or Lignux.

I don't want people's impression of one to transfer to others. Especially elementary OS, as that has the most surface-level difference.

@alcinnz @fribbledom
If you really want to be that correct, you'd have to call it
Linux/Gnu
Since Gnu runs on Linux not the other way around.
But nowedays it's more like
Linux/Systemd/Gnu
and if you use an Intel CPU
IntelME/UEFI/Linux/Systemd/GNU
:troll: 🙄 :troll: 😩 :angry_trump:

@alcinnz @fribbledom if you're interested in the look andfeel of the GUI, or in the package management, then yeah, there are large differences. But if you spend most of your time in a terminal, or if you're interested if a particular piece of software will run on a particular system, then there are lots of similarities between distros.

Now, in the beginning, there was only GNU/Linux, so every distro was similar in that regard and there was no point of differentiationg GNU/Linux from Linux.

However, these days we have Android, Alpine, etc. which are much different in that regard. A piece of software written for GNU/Linux may have trouble running on Android/Linux with bionic libc, or Alpine busybox/musl/Linux with musl libc. Also, busybox feels much more rough than GNU coreutils - eg. busybox ps doesn't support any options.

@Wolf480pl

I do try to make sure to call it GNU/Linux when it actually makes a difference. It's just rarely the case, though.

Just like in your profile's bio: you're a Linux geek, not a GNU/Linux geek... aren't you? 😉

@alcinnz

@fribbledom @alcinnz
Yeah, in most contexts it doesn't make much a difference.

Though I could argue that since I'm a weird guy who bypasses libc and uses Linux syscalls directly, I'm a Linux-but-not-GNU geek :P

@fribbledom this was always the most petty non-issue of the FLOSS world. People will call things as they like, as long as they're understood. Going to a war over it is pretty stupid in my opinion.

P.S. I've always been calling my GNU/Linux "Ubuntu", for example.

@fribbledom Obviously, GNU is male and so is Linux. So Gnu/Linux should be pronounced "GNU Linux Slash"

@fribbledom It was never called that as far as I'm concerned. It's like naming a car "GNU/Volvo" because someone used commonly available tools to build it.

@fribbledom That said, FLOSS community has a long and painful history of wasting time and effort on fighting fights like this while missing to get a "bigger whole" done (also see "editor wars", "desktop environment wars", "package management fights", "init system feuds", ...). Funny to see that, while we emphasize the power of collaboration and open-ness in theory, in practise it usually boils down just to the opposite of small, loud-mouthed camps enthusiastically bashing each other. 😉

@z428

You're certainly right, even though I don't think this has anything to do with FLOSS, but with human nature.

It's also Windows vs Mac, BMW vs Mercedes, Rock vs Pop, and so on... we seem to cling to grouping up in camps and enjoy bashing each other's heads in, to a certain degree. Alas... 🙄

@fribbledom I agree. Maybe it's just that, in FLOSS, there seems a bigger "contrast" here between values preached and actual practise. Yes it's all just human nature, but maybe a bit more "practise-what-you-preach" possibly wouldn't hurt here. 😉

@z428 @fribbledom I hear from those in the trenches that the "desktop environment wars" isn't actually a war... It just looks like one from the outside.

All the developers of the different desktops respect each others work, and will collaborate when it makes sense to them.

@alcinnz

Being part of that group... well, sometimes more, sometimes less. We could certainly all profit from a bit more collaboration. But I certainly agree, it's a lot more respectful than the average reddit user makes it out to be 😉

@z428

@fribbledom
If you call our operating system “Linux”, that conveys a mistaken idea of the system’s origin, history, and purpose. If you call it “GNU/Linux,” that conveys (though not in detail) an accurate idea.

But does this matter? Is it important whether people know the system’s origin, history, and purpose? Yes, because people who forget history are often condemned to repeat it. The Free World that has developed around GNU/Linux is not secure; the problems that led us to develop GNU are not completely eradicated, and they threaten to come back. When I explain why it’s appropriate to call the operating system “GNU/Linux” rather than “Linux,” people sometimes respond this way:

"Granted that the GNU Project deserves credit for this work, is it really worth a fuss when people don’t give credit? Isn’t the important thing that the job was done, not who did it? You ought to relax, take pride in the job well done, and not worry about the credit."

This would be wise advice, if only the situation were like that—if the job were done and it were time to relax. If only that were true! But challenges abound, and this is no time to take the future for granted. Our community’s strength rests on commitment to freedom and cooperation. Using the name GNU/Linux is a way for people to remind themselves and inform others of these goals.

People who know they are using a system that came out of the GNU Project can see a direct relationship between themselves and GNU. They won’t automatically agree with our philosophy, but at least they will see a reason to think seriously about it. In contrast, people who consider themselves “Linux users,” and believe that the GNU Project “developed tools which proved to be useful in Linux,” typically perceive only an indirect relationship between GNU and themselves. They may just ignore the GNU philosophy when they come across it.

The GNU Project is idealistic, and anyone encouraging idealism today faces a great obstacle: the prevailing ideology encourages people to dismiss idealism as “impractical.” Our idealism has been extremely practical: it is the reason we have a free GNU/Linux operating system. People who love this system ought to know that it is our idealism made real.

If “the job” really were done, if there were nothing at stake except credit, perhaps it would be wiser to let the matter drop. But we are not in that position. To inspire people to do the work that needs to be done, we need to be recognized for what we have already done. Please help us, by calling the operating system GNU/Linux.

@r

Thanks, but I feel like I've released enough things under the GPL, LGPL, and AGPL, that I can stop constantly reminding myself of the GNU project 😂

@fribbledom I've got needlessly complicates thoughts on this, but they all converge on "just going to call it Linux".

Needlessly complicated thoughts 

Needlessly ranty thoughts 

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