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We probably have to finally recognize that those who have been left out of the social contract, find no reason to adhere to a social contract, which is why you're seeing protests turning into riots.

"They are lucky that what black people are looking for is equality and not revenge”

-- Kimberly Jones

youtube.com/watch?v=Wf4cea5oOb

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@fribbledom https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2020/05/on-days-of-disorder.html A discussion on riots, and why they happen. It tries to explore some of the riots where there's no way to blame it on being left out of the social contract.

@fribbledom Although that is partly true, that's also not the full story. There are anarchist groups that tend to sneak into these protests, many of which start off 100% peaceful, and intentionally turn them to riots. Or, at least, that's what the media reports here in the US. Sometimes, it's really hard to know what "truths" are actually true and what "truths" are merely embellishments of the truth.

@jazzyeagle @fribbledom It's simpler than that. We watched as cops fired pepper spray, rubber bullets, and tear gas into crowds of peaceful protestors. Protestors, outside instigators, etc didn't "turn the protest violent". COPS turned the protest violent

@jazzyeagle @calcifer @fribbledom It's sad how the first thing we do when things go bad is find a bad actor to blame.

@Parnikkapore @jazzyeagle @fribbledom if you want to fix a system, a first step is finding the broken parts so they can be fixed or replaced

@calcifer
Society is a system with a huge number of moving parts, and so are government and economy.

If you find one part that's broken, your search isn't over. That part does need to be fixed, but you haven't worked out what broke it, how to prevent that in the future, and what else needs fixing.

Most issues in complex systems arise when parts aren't quite broken but not quite compatible either ...
@Parnikkapore @jazzyeagle @fribbledom

@calcifer

"I found one issue, therefore all other issues cannot be relevant".

Police brutality is real and quite enraging (dude, I can't bear to watch those videos, or else I'll be unbearable to my surroundings), and in my view the biggest *immediate* problem.
But that does not mean there were no officers who do their job very well, or that any reaction was justified (though perhaps excusable)
@jazzyeagle @fribbledom

@calcifer @jazzyeagle @fribbledom

If you allow me to wax metaphorical: If you have a bad tooth, pulling it out may be necessary (though maybe you can save it?) But that doesn't mean you should abandon mouth hygiene.
Maybe you did brush your teeth really well, and the bad tooth was totally not your fault but that doesn't mean that abandoning discipline, although emotionally understandable, won't have even worse effects.

@calcifer @jazzyeagle @fribbledom
Back to society and cops: If I want a peaceful world where people are respectful of each other, and someone starts willfully escalating, then that needs to be countered. But if I then abandoned self control and escalated even more, I'd no longer help to achieve my aim. That's exactly what police/government/voting public(!) need to learn, too: Practice restraint when angry. "taking the gloves off" only makes it worse.

@Mr_Teatime @jazzyeagle @fribbledom That's a hell of a straw man you've built there, friend. When we point out that cops are initiating violence against peaceful protestors, and that violence we're seeing on the streets is a direct result of that, it's not saying there are no other relevant problems

@calcifer
I apologize if that's how it reads.

I read Muesli's toot as related to rioters ransacking malls and setting buildings on fire, and your reply as
(exaggerated for clarity) "that's fine because police started hitting protesters first".

Just watching videos of brutal cops makes my blood boil, so I understand anyone who doesn't stay calm when they witness it in person -- but attacking *other* people's stuff is neither measured nor a helpful response.

@jazzyeagle @fribbledom

@Mr_Teatime I see; my reply was not meant that way. We were talking about *why* these things happen, and my point was that the main reason is that police instigate violence. Repeatedly

That said, though—

The looting and property destruction is unfortunate, but it’s ultimately just stuff. The lives that have been lost and ruined because of police brutality are a lot bigger deal than the people who are justifiably angry about it losing control and breaking some shit

The opportunists who are looting because there’s chaos and they can are shitheads. But tbh, there would be no situation for them to take advantage of if cops hadn’t attacked peaceful protestors; the cops need to be accountable for the outcomes of their choices

@jazzyeagle @fribbledom

@calcifer
Yep, that's true.

Authorities: You can't treat people like shit and expect everyone to put up indefinitely.

Protesters: They do have very good ground to protest, and if, met by violence, some loose their cool, that's understandeable but ... difficult, but let's save that for later.

Rioters: Those to me are "plain" criminals and others who've given up on social contracts, just waiting for a spark to start the fire. And I bet police is not their only issue.
@jazzyeagle @fribbledom

@fribbledom This is the best example of a racist policeman the left and blm could find. A democrat that is/was married to an Asian woman han who had stepchildren for asian descent and was working with colored people.

What a racist ??

What about getting some facts?

@aage
Oh shit. Guys, stop the protests! The guy advocating for "killology" training for police, to make them less empathetic killers, is married to an Asian woman. Obviously that means the police has no systematic problems with race inequality and unnecessary violence. Ignore what you see in the news. All the unarmed blacks killed by police are just a streak of bad luck, I guess.
@fribbledom

@frawi @fribbledom you know that last year 9 black and 19 white men was killed by the police in the us?

And can you show me the law in the us that talke away rights from black or any other colord people?

@aage
You have to be kidding me. There are 41m blacks and 197m whites in the US. If your numbers were correct, a black person has a 2.2 times higher probability of being killed by police. Even based on your numbers, you are wrong.

But now, let's look at real numbers. 1003 people were shot and killed 2019 by police. 405 white, 249 black. That means blacks are 3 times as likely to be shot and killed by police.

washingtonpost.com/graphics/in

@fribbledom

@frawi You have to look at the statistics and compere the numbers to one another and then you will see that the numbers tell you what you say is wrong.

Was all of the 249 blacks killed by cops 2019 unarmed?
Here Tucker Carlson goes over the numbers.
youtube.com/watch?v=1qwif8PF1E

@aage
The link I gave you gives you the full database with all kinds of factors that you can filter. The ratio of unarmed blacks vs unarmed whites is pretty much the same. Check the data yourself instead of blind trust.

@aage@norge.social @fribbledom He can actually still be a racist if he does racist things.
I know that must be a difficult concept for you.

And he's not the only example and those are not the only facts about him that matter.

@fribbledom Ah, looks like that guy's instance is blocked from here or something.
Good.

@fribbledom
Wow.

I usually find that people who are angry and shouting don't argue well but damn, was that a consistent and logical argument...

@fribbledom Oh, the guy in the video conference delivered his message perfectly! 30 seconds and so many stupid faces in shame. Bomb them to the ground!

@fribbledom And yet you don't see any specific answers to questions like:
"What happens when someone breaks into my house at night?"
Its all hand-waving and "community programs". That isn't going to fly for a lot of people, regardless of the intent.

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