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Controversial opinion? e-scooters are actually great!

Cheap, easy to carry around, quick to charge, fairly efficient, a ton of fun to ride!

@fribbledom I think the problem is the public e-scooters with no designated parking stations.

@Jakobiner

I agree, even though this is not a problem specifically with e-scooters. Sadly, the same can be witnessed with rental bikes or most other "public" property 😐

@fribbledom @Jakobiner cars almost never park in designated parking stations and they take up far more space but we have all just collectively decided that this is not a problem because cars are privileged for some reason

@danielcassidy
Have you ever heard of parking lots? There's even fines for not parking a car where you're not meant to park it, and you don't get a driving licence unless you demonstrate you understand where that is. At my last place, we had both rental e-scooters and bikes littering the entrance to the local tube station, or just blocking the pavement. Tried to move one out of the way and was greeted by some speaker announcing that it was going to call the police...
@fribbledom @Jakobiner

@danielcassidy @fribbledom @Jakobiner
Which isn't so say that cars don't take up more space. But there's established rules for them, as opposed to those public rental scooters or bikes. Wich aren't actually public, just standing around in public non-designated spaces.

If I had my will, we'd have a ton more (public) roofed bicycle stands, and those bike/scooter rental companies would be responsible for keeping their stuff in designated places.

@fribbledom How do they work? do you have to plug them all night or something? I truly prefer bikes since they don't have any kind of batteries, nor electronics

@qorg11

Depends on the model, most of them have to be charged for about 5 to 6 hours, but have a range of up to 50km (30 miles).

@fribbledom @qorg11 25kg is more usual, unless you're willing to carry more than 14kg around. And to be honest, I would get a 12kg model with less range because carrying that through the main station is not exactly sweat reducing... and I consider myself somewhat fit.

But the main points are still valid: (somewhat) cheap, easy to use, able to carry. Unfortunately the 20km/h limit in Germany is too low, 30 would be better to join bicycle traffic. 🤷‍♂️

@fribbledom @qorg11 I plug mine in when I come home and disconnect before bed, so maybe 3 to 4h to top it off. My model Urban BRLN uses a regular e-bicycle charger too.

@cringe @qorg11

Mine's 14kg and has a range of >40km.

Agree with the German limit being a bit arbitrary.

@fribbledom
I'd say it depends a lot on where you permit them to be used. In a bicycle lane? sure, 25 to 30 km/h. But on sidewalks/pedestrian zones?

In London (before they became regulated) I've often seen some doing more than 30 km/h in rush hour traffic, weaving from the street (between lorries sometimes) to the sidewalk (between pedestrians). Both things are very unsafe, but for different reasons ...
@cringe @qorg11

@Mr_Teatime @cringe @qorg11

Indeed. They're limited to 20kp/h in Germany and you're not allowed to use them on the sidewalk. Basically all the same rules that apply to bicycles also apply to these scooters - which makes total sense to me.

Rental scooters are a separate issue, though.

@fribbledom which model? I bought my Urban BRLN when there were only a couple street legal ones... maybe I need to upgrade 😎

@fribbledom Yesss, but please with at least 25 km/h, anything less is just a dangerous toy in real street traffic.

@frumble

I agree, the 20kph limit (in Germany!) seems a bit arbitrary right now.

@fribbledom @frumble We need lower speed limits and alco-locks. We've had a lot of injuries since they were introduced here.

@pilum @fribbledom Rent scooters are the real problem generator. People are much more prudent if they are using their own vehicle…

@pilum @frumble

Interesting, what's the speed limit in Norway? Are alco-locks a common thing for cars there, too?

@fribbledom @frumble 20km/h and no, they're not. But e-scooters are regulated as e-bikes, not as motorized vehicles, so DUI laws don't apply. Which I think leads to more reckless behaviour in this case.

@pilum @frumble

Interesting, in Germany the DUI laws even apply to pedestrians and bikers 😄

Anything below 15kph and scooters become a bit awkward to ride.

@pilum @frumble

Yeah, just like with bikes, below a certain speed you're constantly busy preventing the entire thing from falling over. At around 15kph it becomes a fairly stable ride.

@fribbledom @pilum @frumble the USA is more like Germany on this one! Pedestrians cant get DUI-ed but basically everything else, from skateboards to horses, the rule is if you’re in the street you can’t be drunk

@petko

Depends on the model, of course, but the one I got can be lifted with one hand, and is way easier to carry around than a bike.

@fribbledom In Amsterdam this opinion would be not be controversial since felyx.com is operating in this area.

@sacha @fribbledom The scooter sharing platforms are far from "ecological". Their problem is the the very short life of the scooter. They struggle to get the useful life to 2 years!!!

The research:
iopscience.iop.org/article/10.
The news article:
theguardian.com/technology/201

@sacha @fribbledom The best option seems to be a bicycle with electric motor. Even if the electronics fail, you still have a bicycle. Upgrades, replacements and so on are easy.

@_1751015
riding an e-bike without using the motor feels sooooo haaard...
As long as I'm physically capable of getting around on a bike without a motor, that is the most sensible solution to me.

The only advantage of an e-scooter is you can take it on a bus with no problem. Even with a folding bike, that's more difficult.
@sacha @fribbledom

@gudenau

Never had an issue with them, even though I'm not actually talking about rental scooters (in particular). At night the QR-scan may fail, but then you'll just enter a 4-letter code and be done with it.

@fribbledom I was trying to get more information on them and the QR code didn't work.

@fluxx

Note: I'm not actually talking about rental scooters.

@fribbledom Ah, okay. That makes a large difference imho.

@fribbledom I think the scooters are great but the rental apps in some cities are a problem. So many accidents, sidewalks completely blocked, the list goes on. I hate trying to get around downtown Austin these days. Such a mess.

@chris

Yeah, rental scooters are a separate issue, as with anything that's treated as "public" property 😐

@fribbledom My issue with e-scooters companies is that many of them are replicating the USA original business model: Instead of having employees recharging the scooters, make an open bounty system in which whoever recharges the scooter gets money, creating a Wild West of bounty hunters investing in their own vehicles and tools for recharging scooters, instead of giving proper salary
@fribbledom They do sound like a lovely idea tbh. What I hate is the urban litter their pay-per-minute providers create.

They lay around everywhere, obstruct bike roads, threaten the visually impaired, and there's zero accountability for it. I'm happy for e-scooters, but I can't wait for the city-scooter companies to die in a fire.

@fribbledom I don't take issue with the scooters themselves. The way the scooter rental companies and average riders behave is what I take issue with. Littering streets and blocking sidewalks with scooters that get beat up very quickly because nobody has amy personal responsibility to take care of them. Plus the rude and illegal riding behavior that is commonplace.

A personal scooter, ridden respectfully and not parked blocking sidewalks, parking spaces etc is A OK with me.

@fribbledom e-scooters scare me, they don't feel very safe, especially on uneven roads.

I just bought an e-bike which feels a lot safer and also means I get a little exercise...

@russss

A bike's certainly a lot safer to ride, especially since we're all used to it since we were children. Which model did you get?

@fribbledom This Chinese one, and I love it. Incredibly good value for money (I needed a folding bike because I have no bike parking).

It's not strictly EU-legal because it has a throttle, but it's super fun to ride, and the instant power also feels safer in traffic. (It's also trivial to unlock the speed limiter so it does 35km/h...)

banggood.com/EU-Direct-FIIDO-D

@fribbledom I think they are fine, but not as nice as e-bikes. e-bikes are an assistive technology, the motor accompany you as you push, handling is similar to a vehicle already decently integrated in general traffic, and bigger wheels make them more flexible.

@fribbledom I also think there's a negative ecological impact. The normalisation of e-scooters against regular scooters (or bikes, skates, etc), means they become a hobby purchase for a lot of people/parents. And because it's relatively recent/cheap tech people will upgrade them more frequently than they'd upgrade a bike.

@fribbledom plus illegal to ride & useless for a great fat bugger like me!

@peemee

Depends where you live, I guess. Perfectly legal here.

@fribbledom my building's bike locker got broken into 4 times this year. I can't take a bike in the elevator, carrying a folding bike up the stairs sucked, so I'm thinking I'll go e-scooter. Just got to wait for the city to make them legal next year.

@fribbledom I've been obsessing over a One Wheel XR since the pandemic began, but I can't justify $1,800+ for it. A scooter might be a more economical choice, (i'm sure there are some that are just as expensive), but I want that 'Float' life the onewheel provides. Where I can carve down the streets and trails like I'm carving powder on a snowboard.

@fribbledom They recently published a study of (recent) traffic accidents here, with the result being that electric scooters were responsible for something like 10x as many accidents as pedestrians and bikes (and we have one of the highest bike riderships in the world).

Maybe it's just the novelty and people don't know how to ride them safely yet, or maybe it's that most traffic is from rental services and the riders just don't care? But not a comforting statistic…

@fribbledom The design is terrible. The ergonomics are like walking on a tightrope. They are totally unstable at low speed. Acceleration is crap because a motor with enough torque would be too big, heavy and expensive. Tiny wheels can't handle bumps or uneven terrain. Range is poor. There's no place for cargo or children. They afford dangerous (and obnoxious) riding on sidewalks. It's another excuse not to get some simple exercise. And they look pretty foolish.

It's basically a cynically produced consumer toy that will be trash in about 18 months. The rental ones are 10x worse (and this is literally confirmed by research).

@fribbledom I had a chance to get one, but I'm looking to get an e-skate after I'm master my longboard I'm still young.

They require more agility, but are even smaller.

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