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Plasma 5.20 is out 😊

A massive release, containing improvements to dozens of components, widgets, and the desktop behavior in general.

kde.org/announcements/plasma-5

@fribbledom
I've never liked KDE and/or plasma, but maybe I'll give it a try again. It's been a while. One can never judge on outdated info right :)

@sexybiggetje

I mean, I'm totally biased here, but you should indeed give it a shot 😉

Progress has been pretty amazing in the past few years!

@fribbledom I hate waiting for KDE to filter down so I can play with it. It looks so pretty.

@fribbledom painful to see them refer to the super key as "meta".

@fribbledom Moved away because they do dumb stuff like linking powerdevil to networkmanager-qt and bleudevil and my config just crashed in wayland. They have to tidy up some stuff.

@bionade24 @fribbledom
That appears to be a packing problem of your distro.
On my Debian Sid system, those things are not linked.

@bionade24 @fribbledom
I looked at the package itself and it does not have a runtime dependency on it, but it indeed has a B-D on it.

But the changelog has "Update the build dependencies according to the upstream build system" added when the B-D on libkf5networkmanagerqt-dev was added. 🤔

@bionade24

That's a build-time dependency, though. The runtime dependency should be optional.

@FreePietje

@fribbledom But it can be a runtime, if you compile it? After pacman -Rdd networkmanager-qt it hasn't loaded anymore because of missing symbols.

@bionade24

The dependency is definitely optional (and only required to control power settings of wireless devices):

github.com/KDE/powerdevil/blob

I'm not sure if this means linking to the library is also required, but fwiw you could just install "powerdevil-light" instead, which lacks this dependency.

@bionade24

I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle though. Unless you absolutely need the 10MB of disk space, this dependency still doesn't force you to actually enable & run NetworkManager.

@bionade24

I'd need to check the build system, but it looks like it's linking the library to powerdevil, so it'd naturally fail to load if you just remove the lib.

@fribbledom Yes, I knew ldd showed it as dep. I'm now already a week on powerdevil-light when still using KDE. It's having weird behaviour, the battery emergency limits got reset and the battery detection fails more often. (After restarting plasmashell it will work again.) Powerdevil was just one unnecessary tied dep in KDE, could also use Kwallet vs libsecret as an example. There are 2 parts not really belonging together, but are just tied because DBus is used at the wrong level.

@bionade24 @fribbledom @FreePietje And the connection from wireless to powerdevil doesn't even really make sense, because it doesn't anything rfkill can't provide. Additionally connman + iwd handles Energy savings way better, plus providing more stable wireless connections on intel cards. An unexperienced user won't do that and tell the world that Linux WLAN sucks, because don't know how to disable networkmanager on systemctl. And it's a rundep on Debian, too.

@bionade24

The linking issue sounds like a packaging problem. I don't use Wayland yet. Still too many (documented) issues, at least in combination with kwin / Plasma.

@fribbledom awesome! Too bad I moved away from KDE a few days ago...

@fribbledom
* task manager: I prefer titles if there's space for them
* systray: Yes, tiles are much better
* meta instead of Alt to move windows: Yaass! Loved the functionality but it broke so many shortcuts

Also great: charge limit, disk overview/SMART, settings highlighting, and merged shortcut config.

Will have to test otherwise. Hope that background services (Akonadi, Nepomuk) are causing issues less often ... those are a pain to fix on the user end.

@fribbledom

...and I still don't get the default launcher menu. First thing I do on any new install is switch to the alternative menu where mouse-over unfolds the next menu level without hiding the current level.

@Mr_Teatime

Yeah, I switched to Meta instead of Alt quite a while ago (it always used to be a setting).

I've configured a few excludes (network storage, caches) for Baloo and file indexing has been a breeze ever since.

@fribbledom
I did search for that setting and failed ...
I did try to set up exceptions for Baloo. After over an hour trawling through config files and no feedback whether I achieved anything, I gave up because I was at work and had stuff to finish. There should really be a setting in the GUI to exclude files above a certain size, certain types, folders or devices.

My latest issue is kmail failing because akonadi fails. "Details" shows nothing. There's fora discussions about this since 2014

@fribbledom
...and each discussion finds a different root for the problem. There's just too many ways this setup can fail. It's not one bug, it's a really good place for bugs to hide, and for configuration errors to go unnoticed until something breaks.

@Mr_Teatime

You can find the setting under Window Management -> Behavior -> Window Actions (Tab) -> Modifier Key.

You're right, a few more options for Baloo would be nice. Folder management works fine for me, though.

Which email service do you use Kmail with? I've had lots of weird issues in combination with Gmail, but ever since I switched back to my own mail setup it worked just flawlessly. Not a single hiccup since.

@fribbledom
Kmail can't start because Akonadi isn't running.
Only after trying to start akonadi from commandline do I learn that it fails because it can't access SQL
Akonadi tries to start it, then "permission denied" (for what?), then claims maybe I have no sql server installed.
Checked: Sql and Mariadb are installed. re-installed them to be sure.

Had a look at config files but they look fine to me (never touched them, and shouldn't have to) -- this all looks a bit Rube-Goldberg-y to me

@Mr_Teatime

That sounds like a packaging issue to me. Which distro?

@fribbledom
Manjaro (which I'm otherwise very happy with)

Kmail used to work very nicely, out of the box. But this is my laptop so I don't use it often, and there were several updates between the last time kmail worked and the error appearing. I think one of them must have misaligned something or other.

@Mr_Teatime

For what it's worth, you can find Akonadi's database in ~/.local/share/akonadi

If you can live without the existing data, I'd recommend trying to delete ~/.local/share/akonadi* and ~/.config/akonadi* and try to start over.

@fribbledom @Mr_Teatime
If you're going to start over, I can heartily recommend using PostgreSQL for akonadi.

enricozini.org/blog/2015/akona
will give you instructions on how to set it up.
I prefer using '_' over '-' though as '-' has special meaning in PostgreSQL.

@FreePietje @fribbledom
Thanks for the suggestion -- will see if it makes things better.

My point, though, is that a regular user shouldn't have to deal with setting up (or choosing) database servers for user data managament frameworks in order to run a working e-mail client. It may be nice in some cases to have that ability but although it works nicely when it does, the failure frequency is too high for anyone who just needs it to work.

@Mr_Teatime @fribbledom

I completely agree.
(ftr: akonadi is for all PIM data, not just mail)
If you look at the kdepim-users archive, you'll see problems with akonadi since the start. But with a single maintainer afaik (Daniel Vrátil), an architectural redesign isn't an option.
With PostgreSQL the problems are *far* fewer and afaik the only reason it isn't the default is that there isn't an automatic way to migrate to a new version of PostgreSQL.

@FreePietje @fribbledom

Just tried to set it up with postgresql but it turns out there is no package containing the works "akonadi" and "backend" for Manjaro (or openSUSE, for that matter). Even OBS only has inofficial packages for Debian.

But I got more hints: Even the mysql workbench can't connect to the mysql server. Which would indicate that it's indeed an issue around SQL, or how it's been configured by the system (not me, I didn't go near it!).

@Mr_Teatime @fribbledom
Apparently Manjaro is based on Arch and hopefully that means you can also use the awesome Arch wiki.
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/K
may be of help

@FreePietje
gosh, that sounds as if I'd have to uninstall and re-install Akonadi for this. Uninstalling Akonadi means uninstalling a ton of stuff which depends on it, effectively most of KDE. That looks like it'd take a fairly bored afternoon to get into that... those are currently in short supply.

I think before I do that, I'll post the issue in some place with some visibility for devs, and maybe someone who can tell me what's wrong with mariadb in the first place.
@fribbledom

@fribbledom
thanks for the hint about config! just found it, and it works even better than expected because it's only the left key (I've the right one assigned to combining diacritics and other special characters)

...this makes it *so* much better!

@fribbledom lovely! The next flavour of Ubuntu I (re)try might be Ubuntu Studio, as they move to Plasma with version 20.10

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