@Steinar @fribbledom tl;dr -- is there something correct on the horizon?

@jonn @fribbledom Unless you count less popular distros as Void, no. The above post toys with the idea of the functions of systemd being swallowed by the packet filtering VM in the kernel.

So you just throw a piece of raw meat into the arena and see what happens? 😂

@fribbledom I get what you're trying to do (and I'm cool with that) but why do you gotta promote systemd.

@fribbledom You should write Systemd+Linux, because slash may be interpreted as if Systemd and Linux were interchangeable. ~

@fribbledom Sorry, I prefer to use OpenRC+elogind+GNU+Linux

@squeakypancakes Except for the jump in how tech savvy you need to be when compared to e.g. Linux Mint.

I had to learn way more than I wanted about the system in order to switch to Void.

@Asimech I've never used Void it was just one I could think of that people seem to like. Artix is no more difficult to use than Manjaro.

@squeakypancakes Haven't tried Manjaro, but I should really check Artix then.

Thank you for pointing that out.

@fribbledom "Or as I like to say, systemd with a Linux front end."

@fribbledom
I only see people hating systemd, so how come it is so widespread? What are the advantages?

@Mopsi

It makes it easier to supervise and control services/processes and parallelized job execution (state & logging).

It provides a uniform, distribution-independent interface to various system functions.

It does a whole lot of things, really, and its monolithic design is a frequent point of criticism.

It also relieves distributions from reinventing the wheel in several places, which is probably why it's seeing widespread adoption.

@fribbledom @Mopsi systemd, just like pulseaudio or avahi is a project designed by Lennart Poettering, to provide an integrated solution for managing services from boot. It's an homogenized and redesigned replacement of wheels from UNIX that were already reimplemented or ported to Linux from the 90's. It's popular because it provided a complete set of tools ( many parts are optional ) covering most Linux users needs in various environments.

@fribbledom @Mopsi systemd is not monolithic, but rather a bunch of smaller programs that talk to each other.

@paperdigits

Not in its distribution, but I'd argue it is rather monolithic in its design. There are a bunch of inter-dependencies between the individual components, and while some of them may be interchangeable in theory, in practice that's really not that simple.

@Mopsi

@fribbledom @Mopsi yeah, so should we have designed a new init system that didn't work well together?

@paperdigits

That's not what I'm suggesting. But the interfaces could be documented better and there needs to be a bit of a compatibility guarantee if you truly want to make interchangeable components.

That part, unlike most of the other criticism, is actually justified.

@Mopsi

@paperdigits

yeah, so should we have designed a new init system that didn’t work well together?

I believe that most of the anti-systemd folks are of the opinion that we shouldn’t have designed a new system at all.

@fribbledom @Mopsi

@paperdigits @Mopsi @fribbledom That's not a good faith argument. Good integration does not require high coupling.

@clacke @Mopsi @fribbledom all the systemd bits have APIs and they talk over those APIs. If you want.to replace some little bits, you can, FreeBSD does this for some things. I guess the trouble is that there are lots of bits.

@fribbledom
Thank you for all those answers! I was a bit afraid to get a reply like "there are no advantages, systemd is the devil" 😅

@Mopsi

No, quite the contrary in my view. There are many benefits to systemd and the criticism is a bit overblown.

@Mopsi It does the job of several pieces of software so distro maintainers only need to update and test a new version of systemd.

There were also some "distro X did Y, which creates more work for us unless we also do Y" type cross-distro stuff going on. I read about it a good while back so I can't remember the details.

@Mopsi The link provided by someone else above mentions GNOME being dependant on systemd, which might be what I was trying to remember.

@Mopsi @fribbledom the haters are definitely the very vocal minority. systemd works well and I don't miss the days of sysv starting my app before the database had finished starting.

@fribbledom pretty sure it's systemd-linuxd, but I can't use it anyway because no glibc

@fribbledom everybody I ask about it replies "works". I still prefer openrc at least for server systems

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