Activity Package: The has launched an activity package for organisations and individuals to raise awareness and empower them to advocate for users' device sovereignty in their countries.

Because it is the time to establish this right in all 27 EU member states, we need the help of organisations and individuals!

@fsfe especially since for the cable network in Germany it's a pain to get a compatible modem. Waiting now for 4 months since we have only one shop for those and they have long waiting times. Nobody wants a crippled provider router!

@grimneko Oh, that's bad. Which router are you looking for? These are really long delivery times.

Please also share your experience in our survey. This is useful data for us to argue with:

@fsfe Router freedom essentially killed the cable modem market in Germany, forcing users to use either the provider router (which might not have bridge mode) or buy a Fritz!Box.

Before router freedom, you got a modem, and put your own router behind it.

There are one or two modems that are compatible with EuroDOCSIS 3.1 that one shop imports, but they're not officially marketed for Germany.

In summary, router freedom brought the opposite.


@fsfe I think the answer is that we also need to force providers to provide a modem endpoint that I can attach a router too, and not just any passive endpoint - which killed standalone modems.


@juliank @fsfe My perception is rather that there was never a free market in the cable area. Even before Vodafone I was forced to use UnityMedia's Cisco Modem (ok, was acceptable), but Vodafone practically killed the choice (beeing a ISP enforced router box advacate to begin with, even before entering the cable market).

@grimneko the difference is providers had modems before and you used your own router behind that.

As it is in FTTH atm. But now people forced the passive FTTH end point, so we'll likely see network termination devices disappear and you'll only be able to order integrated devices for that too. @fsfe

@juliank @fsfe With FTTH in the best case you just need to buy a SPF/SPF+ module if you have a higher-end routing device to be able to directly work with the fiber coming out of the wall. Not for everyone but still no argument for ISP provided all-in-one devices.

@grimneko @juliank @fsfe FTTH is a strange case. Actually, there is no "objective technological necessity" for ignoring Router Freedom, but especially German ISPs do so. We argue strongly against that, and are curious how BNetzA will decide on this.

@grimneko Providers will absolutely define the interface requirements rigidly enough that only a Fritz!Box will satisfy it.

I don't know what their network termination devices does, certainly some decryption is necessary with GPON, but what layer I have no idea.


@juliank @fsfe @grimneko I see where you are coming from, but would still disagree. Also having to use an ISPs modem ("point B" in BEREC speech) neglects sovereignty over your devices. Furthermore, even back then you were not able to always get a modem (made these experiences with KabelBW and UM myself, and of course also with DSL connections).

The choice is still limited in the cable market, but at least there is one! And if we get Router Freedom in more EU states, demand/supply increases

@fsfe A Technicolor TC4400-EU DOCSIS 3.1 modem ( Originally I had a Cisco 3208 Modem Docsis 3.0 in use when I was a Unitymedia customer (supplied by them even), but since it became Vodafone that option is not available any more and my one died last year. It got replaced with their "Vodafone Station" which i hope to replace.

@grimneko @fsfe OK, modems are a bit harder to get. What about a cheap, used FritzBox cable? If you're lucky, you can get those for ~40-50€, and also use them as a modem basically (depends on your use-case though).

@mxmehl @fsfe Klingt zwar gut, aber dann bekomm ich die SIP Daten nicht. Zum anderen hab ich die Sorge das man mir dann eine Vodafone Firmware drauf aufspielt, und ich damit auf Sie für Updates angewiesen bin. Zumindest ist die Chance gut in nem Monat an ein TC4400 ran zu kommen. :)

@grimneko @fsfe Die SIP-Daten muss dir dein ISP allerdings geben, das ist im (aktuellen) TKG geregelt. Und ein Firmware-Zwang gibt es diesbezüglich auch nicht. Aber gut, viel Erfolg mit dem Modem! Und wie gesagt, gerne die Umfrage ausfüllen, das sind so Erfahrungen, die für uns sehr hilfreich sind – danke!

@mxmehl @fsfe Wieder etwas schlauer geworden, danke. :) Und das Survey hab ich direkt als erste bearbeitet, hoff es liefert nützliches.

@fsfe Have there been any communication with
Turris about this?

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