Should /e/OS drop @telegram and @signalapp as preinstalled apps in favor of the universal and E2E-encrypted Instant Messaging application @delta_chat?
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@succfemboi @email@example.com You should really do this if you are not interested in what we are doing which is described at: https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/wiki/en/wikis/e-product-description-pro-privacy-Android-ROM-and-online-services
You know, this is really simple: we are building something, then people choose to use it or not. That's freedom and I'm super confortable with this.
@succfemboi Ah you are THE guy ^^ At some stage I wish you can unlock from your deadly logic.
@succfemboi That's call freedom
@succfemboi It's very clear on our website that we're forking LineageOS and probably we will eventually fork AOSP directly as we go bigger.
However, please look at what we are doing. We have a consistent description of the /e/OS online. If you keep thinking it's just LOS+microG, I cannot do more for you.
/e/ is not for most LOS users, we have different goals.
Hi. I would like to second Gael on his points. I'm a Lineage + MicroG user and I think it's great if the project gets more accessible to non technical people. I had to dig into the MicroG framework to set it up correctly. I will be sticking to this setup for now but will keep an eye on e.
@noodleman However they seem to already struggle with regularly syncing their fork with upstream LineageOS, which provides /e/-users a build that is sometimes months out of date. I wonder how that will develop when they fork from AOSP directly.
However I do see that /e/ is different from LOS+MicroG by claiming it to be Google-free (even though it does connect to Google with microG) and bundling it with questionable apps that either use an a selfmade and insecure protocol for encryption like Telegram or requires Google Services to properly function like Signal for example.
I still have this handful of application that relies on it (Signal being of of them). Therefor not integrating such solution would mean to create an alternative and hope for the app devs to use it. It still relies on Google, yes, but it seems necessary to me in order to ease the transition.
@succfemboi @noodleman @firstname.lastname@example.org
You keep on forgetting all the details of the /e/ product at https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/wiki/en/wikis/e-product-description-pro-privacy-Android-ROM-and-online-services
Whether fork is good or not is debatable (/e/ provides a lot of integration with its services that would not fit in LineageOS) for innovation.
The re-branding of existing projects is more problematic to me.
#Librem does this too 😠
I am 1000% for that option.
I alreday use Delta Chat and recommand it to everyone i know. This app is the perfect solution to introduce people softly to privacy, because no centralisation, no need to keep users in a gated community, it is usable with everybody. Delta Chat need as much vusibility as possible.
@gael Delta is a horrible choice since it relies on email. 2 options:
- Use XMPP (with Quicksy).
- Use Matrix (with Riot), Librem 5 phone will have it and the French gov. is already using it.
@gael Definitely, Signal should be dropped. This app is confusing and mixes SMS and chat via their own protocol. Plus, it presents a serious bug preventing SMS from A to be delivered to B when A and B used Signal at some point but A stopped using it and switched back to plain old SMS. My theory being that Signal switches to their own messaging system has soon has it can and never switches back to plain old SMS.
@gael I would argue to use @silence as SMS app. This is a fully functioning plain old SMS app that encrypts messages as soon as both users have Silence installed. Plus, the project could appreciate some love since its main dev is currently busy with studies.
As for instant messaging app, Telegram seems some kind of default standard (unhopefully), Matrix definitely isn't user friendly (yet?) and Delta may be confusing.
My 2 cents.
Hi. I think in order to make it different, it would be better to let users choose what they prefer. I would suggest to get a screen on the first run setup wizard with some explanations and recommendations as no such apps are universal nor critically required.
Regarding Telegram, yes, I think it's a short-sighted decision.
/e/ users should definitively have the option to install Telegram, it's a very popular messaging platform and it wouldn't make sense to deprive users that want to use it from this option.
Howerver, if /e/ wants to popularize free software, and I believe it does, the default shouldn't be a service with a closed and centralized infrastructure.
Librem chose Matrix and I think it's better, Delta Chat wouldn't be bad either.
@gael We already have an open, standardised, fully E2EE way of IM, that is XMPP, with many clients (most notably, conversations and quicky). The true and real problem about this applications is their lack of widespread usage when compared to telegram and whatsapp unfortunately.
@strypey @gael Echoing Strypey's take. I personally put higher stock in being able to communicate cross-platform with non /e/ users, with extra points to decentralization where possible. Deltachat is pretty seamless in this regard.
It does lack video/voice chat though, unlike Signal (I wish Jami were more up to this task).
@gael I still have hope for Matrix/Jitsi, and desperately want XMPP/OMEMO to work flawlessly between iOS/Android, but you'd likely have to run your own servers and brand your own versions of Riot/Conversations to make user experience as frictionless as possible.
@gael I revisited Jami and actually think it's worth taking a look at. They're published on F-droid. I had to tinker with some default settings to get notifications to work, but I confirmed chat/voice/video working on my /e/ device. Nothing required for registration except for a username. https://jami.net/
The only other alternative I know of that includes all three mediums, is privacy-focused and cross-platform (apart from Signal) is Tox https://tox.chat/
@gael Jami would obviously need to be tested beyond my anecdotal experience, but it hits all your points: universal, decentralized, and E2E encrypted. It's more distributed and feature-full than Delta Chat.
I tested Antox briefly; the notifications were wonky. Haven't tried Android to iOS yet for either.
Signal's draw was its capacity to consolidate apps and its potential for universality. If that's proven too difficult, may as well try something simpler and unconventional.
@stertorous I don't think it's universal: you can only communicate with people who have installed the app
@gael *By most people I mean current non-/e/ users.
Regarding telegram and signal, please drop them. They are both forcing you to leave Metadata and/or data to them. It is against your moto "my data is my data"
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