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in what universe do you grow up "pledging allegiance to the flag" and not wind up thinking your country might be a tad fashy

@garfiald teachers down here get heated if you 'disrespect' it

@garfiald we start 'em so young over here that it's just "oh that's just how you start the day". It's just another feature of school, like raising your hand to answer a question.

@illnessideology i genuinely struggle to like process that this is real. I didnt know about this until like 1 or 2 years ago and Im still not sure i believe that its true. its a fucking cartoon version of fascism like what the fuck

@evan @garfiald my catholic high school adopted it my sophmore or junior year. right after homeroom prayer was the pledge. maybe a little too on the nose

@garfiald @illnessideology I went to a Hebrew preschool and they had us do both Israeli and American pledges...

@illnessideology @garfiald I went to Israel when I was 13... if anyone finds the dozens of pictures of me there I’ll be cancelled

@garfiald I think in the American mind, we can't be fascist because 1) we fought the fascists and 2) we vote. so like, hardcore nationalism doesn't get processed as fascism. it's just "loving your country"

@garfiald I don’t stand. Only about five kids do, and they’re the ones I worry about.

@garfiald true fact, in like grades 4-5 I used to stand and not say anything. Only one teacher ever called me out on it.

@wohali @garfiald Standing but not saying anything was my centrist compromise for the morning pledge.

@garfiald we don't have that here, but we do have the minutes silence for november 11, which I always refused to stand for

@CornishRepublicanArmy big friggin mood ngl. whats your take on bonfire night? for me on the one hand its like "paganism yayy" but on the other hand its like "executing those who dare challenge the state boooo"

@garfiald Guy Fawkes had no intention of anything radical. he basically just wanted Britain but Catholic. I respect the hustle of trying to blow up ol' James and am always down for some anti Prot gang but it's not like him succeeding would have been good and you fuckin' know I am not out there cheering god save the king

@garfiald moved to the US 5 years ago and it's still weird to me how there are american flags everywhere. people with huge flags in front of their houses, flags in glass frames on the wall in subway stations

@garfiald like I don't really understand the mentality of someone who goes to the trouble of putting a flag pole on the front of their home and putting up a huge full-sized flag

@garfiald I disliked it instantly when I encountered it in elementary. I knew it was wrong but I don't know how. So I think everyone gets the idea unless they're extremely sheltered - it's just one more reason kids hate and categorize mandatory education as a prison rather than an opportunity.

@garfiald I always thought it was creepy and weird when I was in the states. And I was 6 at the time.

@garfiald the one where you grow up doing that so you think its completely normal

@garfiald I fuzzily remember assuming that members of every nation had their own version and that they also did it from like 6 onward

@garfiald the American left reeeeeeallly digs their heels in about the fascism baked into the core ideology of the country even after all trump has done

@garfiald I literally didn't have a useful understanding of what 'fascism' was until maybe 2015 and I imagine that's a pretty normal trajectory for victims of American public education

@garfiald keep in mind, we studied the Holocaust most years of my pretertiary education starting in middle school. and I couldn't have told you what fascism was. we talked about 'totalitarianism' because that framing facilitated tarring communists and fascists with the same brush. I was probably able to vote before I knew that 'nazi' was a subset of 'fascist'.

@byttyrs @garfiald approximately every single kid was assigned 1984 and/or animal farm to learn how to be skeptical of authority so that should about tell you how much of a threat to authority orwell was, for example

@vegetablegremlin @garfiald taught, mind you, almost always as an option alongside Atlas Shrugged or the Anthem!

@garfiald I stopped saying the pledge late in middle school, bc of my growing awareness of how central white supremacist violence- which I don't think I would have called that- was to U.S. state-building. by high school I was deeply uneasy with 'school spirit' as a concept because it was clearly a way to groom children into nationalism.

my political consciousness still stopped at 'not doing the pledge is a protest'. we were systematically deprived the conceptual tools for meaningful critique.

@garfiald the universe where it's just totally normal to you and you don't know any better.

you just know everyone else is a little weird for *not* saluting the flag...

@garfiald here's a thing about that. We grew up in Michigan, which is a damn fashy state. Lots of militias. We found out sometime around age 14 that we were legally entitled not to stand or say the pledge and abstained from that point on through high school. No one ever said anything to us about it. Not once. As you can see, we're whiter than Wonderbread. But I'm sure that had nothing to do with it.

@garfiald especially because a central part of the ritual is that you are allowed by law not to participate except you definitely have to participate

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