Actually, arguments in favour of "economy of form" which demand that media such as albums, films, books not "waste the audience's time" buys into the commodification of every aspect of existence by capitalism. Art should not subscribe to this commodification: it should resist it. So fill your novels with as many digressions, your movies with as many lingering shots and unnecessary scenes, your albums with as much filler as you feel like doing. I will be happy to waste that time with you.

Art isn't useful, that's the point. It's always a waste of time, so it's never too long.

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@Kidsgobroke lol. I would never engage in "discourse". That just ain't my style

@garfiald I totally agree. I wonder how much of that is being driven by the fact that our brains are being rewired by the Internet to skim instead of reading/watching things "deeply"?

@freakazoid that's probably a factor. Generally speaking, we're made to feel like we don't ever have any time to waste. And we're supposed to prove ourselves by how busy we are, by bragging about how little time we have to do things like read a long, meandering poem. I think art is an important way of reminding ourselves that these are lies, that we don't have to feel this way about our lives.


This reminds me of the story of Gessen. But everything seems to these days.


ok but at least can we agree that the LoTR uncut is a waste of my time

@garfiald on a purely aesthetic level there can be something to be said for economy of form but... it's purely an aesthetic choice, not a moral one

@annebrennan there's no denying that plenty of works of art are especially remarkable for the way they harness tightness and brevity. But the notion that brevity is a value in itself, that, for example, any book will be improved by being shortened fails to account for works which revel in the incidental and the useless. These are values which I think have a specific resonance in relation to our current social situation and the pressures it imposes upon us.

@garfiald Fuck yeah! The space between things is as important as the things themselves.

@garfiald I entirely agree with this except in the case of Melville, who I refuse to take whaling advice from.

@garfiald Wow, there are people who even say things like this? I bet they are the ones who eat their meals in one gulp and say the food doesn't need to be fancy.
That time is not "wasted", it's what heals the mind <3

@garfiald i had an extended argument once with a peer who couldn't see why it was bad that conventional wisdom for submitting a game to the IGF was "make sure you have a really strong first ~5 minutes because otherwise people will get bored and stop playing and won't vote for your game". like, yes, i can imagine a lot of players of a commercial game doing that but this is ostensibly a festival for celebrating the cutting edge of a medium? i guess the epilogue is it's not the cutting edge, lol.

@garfiald oh damn, just saw that this post was very old. sorry for the thread necromancy; it was boosted into my timeline.

@jplebreton don't worry about it lol I'm always happy when people interact with old posts and your comment is interesting and relevant

@garfiald you hear that eminem? We want all the skit characters to come back. Make that shit work like avengers endgame.

@garfiald I appreciate this a lot. my internal editor is more of a cop than anything else, so

@garfiald this certainly looks like a command. You would be a ruler if you had the power.

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